Project: Red Headed Tsundere (Working Title)

[themocaw]

Quick question: at about what point in game development do people usually post a demo?

[DaFool]

It's up to you.

It depends on whether your purpose is to recruit talent (post earlier) or to wow people to anticipate your project (post later).

I'm trying to remember... all the projects I have ever been involved in, if I remember correctly, none of them released demos... at most they were betas. Even my first technically-incomplete submission was a self-contained submission, since the point was that I won't have to work on it again.

[DaFool]

Forgot MagBou... which broke the rule that post demo = game never finishes.

[DrakeNavarone]

It would be nice if the demo had some real substance to it. I find it harder and harder for me to get excited about text-only demos, especially those with only a few lines that barely demonstrate what the story is supposed to be about. Even using placeholder graphics will liven things up a bit. But even if you do release a text-only version, try to give it moderate length so we can really get a feel for the story.

And be warned, the completion rate for projects with demos released is unfortunately really low, it's almost something of a curse (and I don't seem to be doing much to help it...)

[themocaw]

It would be nice if the demo had some real substance to it. I find it harder and harder for me to get excited about text-only demos, especially those with only a few lines that barely demonstrate what the story is supposed to be about. Even using placeholder graphics will liven things up a bit. But even if you do release a text-only version, try to give it moderate length so we can really get a feel for the story.

And be warned, the completion rate for projects with demos released is unfortunately really low, it's almost something of a curse (and I don't seem to be doing much to help it...)

Your point is well taken. I have a demo version that encompasses chapter 1 with placeholder graphics in place, but that's mostly for private feedback and so my artist will have something to work off of.

[YuMMz]

I believe that posting demos early can help you work out some kinks though before you get too far into the game. I know that my posting of a demo for my game really impacted the style of writing I was using and I think for the better. So I am very glad I posted it before I got too much input into Ren'Py or I would have had to go back and change alot more.

[themocaw]

I believe that posting demos early can help you work out some kinks though before you get too far into the game. I know that my posting of a demo for my game really impacted the style of writing I was using and I think for the better. So I am very glad I posted it before I got too much input into Ren'Py or I would have had to go back and change alot more.

I did send a version of the early game over to my artist, who made some very good suggestions: first and foremost, that I should implement the ability for the player to choose the main character's name, even if it does involve some extra coding. (She also commented on the surrealness of seeing stick figures standing next to cutout art in front of a blank background with the words "INSERT DYNAMIC AND EXCITING BACKGROUND HERE" written in Impact font.)

I might do a limited demo release of the first chapter once it's completed, so that I can gauge where I need to make some changes and shifts in focus.

[themocaw]

Pseudo Development Diary Entry:

If I had to say what my two biggest problems with this are, it's 1. Trying to find the time and focus to work on the project, and 2. Trying to maintain a consistent and interesting tone.

The first, I have to do on my own. The second. . . well.

As an example, at one point I thought it would be funny if Kit had an airgun on her and shot the character in the head many many times if he went down the road of being a jackass. It wasn't. Once I'd written out the conversation tree, it didn't feel funny, it just felt dumb. It took me a couple of days and a conversation with my artist to finally make the tough choice of killing that entire conversation tree and replacing it with something different. The funny thing is that once I did that, it was easier to continue: with the new method, the game just feels better, and Kit once again becomes an interesting character.

Which led to my second realization: Choice is the Enemy. One of the things I did starting out was include about five or six choices at each step in the conversation tree, but the narrator basically had no consistent personality. What I'm doing now is streamlining the conversation trees by getting rid of the more extraneous choices, narrowing the narrator's personality range down to about half of what it used to be. For example: given that he's supposed to be a bit of a coward, he will no longer have the option of taking a swing at someone who he gets mad at at the beginning of the game: his choices are limited to trying to speak up and not speaking up: in other words, this is a story about taking baby steps.

Finally, at the request of my artist, and probably to the enjoyment of you guys, I'm including "fanservice" options in the tree because hey, who doesn't like it when the hero accidentally stumbles over a towel-clad girl coming out of the shower and gets a knee to the nuts as a thank you?

[monele]

Many choices in conversation are very hard to do... It's done often in western RPG (fallout, baldur's gate) but most choices don't change anything and there's no check to see if the player is choosing consistently (being nice and suddenly harsh and then nice, etc...). It's really about *roleplaying*, so it's up to the player to act well... the game only gives possible lines.
In the end, since you're planning to have a more defined personality for the protagonist (though changeable throughout the game I take it), it's probably best to stay with simple convo trees indeed ^^

[DaFool]

Yup. VNs != Roleplaying

It would be easier if you were approaching a kinetic novel than if you were approaching an choice-ma-thon.

Just keep fleshing out their personalities consistently.

[themocaw]

Project continues.

One of the harder parts is incorporating new ideas that come up. If I'd wanted to do this as a kinetic novel, I could probably be done by now, but the problem is, that seems like a total waste, so although there is less choice than I'd originally come up with, there is more than I might like. No worries, it's still fun.

Wound up splitting up the script into several files so that I could have the (rapidly growing) init block on one file and switch back and forth between it and the actual game script.

Been using CG rips from various games as placeholders (thank you, Bittorrent, and Virtual Call III). Which is odd seeing rendered Kit with brown hair and stick figures for everyone else. Oh well.

Hoping my artist finishes their commissions soon so they can do some work on this game

Having lots of fun, hardest part remains maintaining a good rhythm and doing some work every day, even if it's only brainstorming and optimizing.