Mirai Games Recruiting

[Lordie]

I understand your IDEA, I just don't think you comprehend how business works. Sometimes those things that seem logical in the average person's mind [like your free advertising idea,] are business DISASTERS.

Yes, you're right about that. I admit I'm no expert buseniss-guy and are sure naive in these areas *shrugs*
But isn't there a saying that goes like "All PR are good PR"

Anyways, read my most recent edit above. The company is gone, as far as I can tell. No longer exists.

Hmm, so the company that released the english/german version in 99 doesn't exist, if I understand you correctly?

[bloodywyvern]

The less money they are making on a product, the more reason they have to sue you. As surprising as that is...

If the Japanese publisher were too find out, they would undoubtedly send a cease and desist order. Whether they would follow with a law suit or not, who knows. On a personal level I'd be more upset seeing someone take something I sold, and give a revamped version away for free. Not only does that cut in to any potential sales, no matter how extraordinarily slim, but it also degrades their work. Think about it, let's say you created something you felt was good enough to sell...then presumably someone made a better version. Not only did they improve on your game, but they didn't even sell it. That's just a painful hit to the ego >.> At least by selling it, they would have something to sue you for/profits to leech off of.

[renkenjutsu]

I'm agreeing with Mikey. This is treading on thin ice. It's safer to make do with new casts and new story, but with the same simple game play that made True Love famous. Just my two cents.

[Jake]

And I won't be cutting anyone's profit...why? Because as far as I know, the ins't sold anymore.

Can you be so sure that the Japanese version isn't sold any more by the original publisher or the original software house? Or 0that releasing an English-language version wouldn't potentially lose them sales from Japanese people trying to learn English, or English-speaking people who might otherwise have struggled through the Japanese?

Sure, it's fairly unlikely, but I wouldn't go so far as certain.

Seriously - as mikey said, the game wasn't exactly the most fantastic game ever. Is there any real reason you're not going to just make a homage with a similar structure but different writing and characters?

But isn't there a saying that goes like "All PR are good PR"

Perhaps, but it's a lie. Just ask Hitler!

[Guest]

As far as I know True Love is abandonware (meaning the copyright holder will no longer sell it, yet they do not want to make it free either). AFAIK the company who made True Love later stopped with the production of eroge and no longer wanted to be associated with this title. I think they've also changed their name once... Anyway, Google brought up the following info:
Developed by Software House Parsley, and released by Otaku Publishing, Ltd. It was translated into English and published in the United States by JAST USA in 1994.


I've also found the following:
"
A sequel had been planned, and is hinted at in the ending of the first game. There is a demo of this sequel, but it is rare. Unfortunately the sequel was later cancelled." - Wikipedia
"

The above sounds interesting, though there is currently no mention of this on Wikipedia, so that's probably just rumors...

[Samu-kun]

For some reason, I doubt the chances of you getting into trouble are very high if the English company that published it is dead. Don't take my word for it, but copyright laws are generally alot more relaxed in Japan. That explains why the entire realm of doujin exists in the first place. If Japanese companies actually sued people for copyright infringement, then there would be a whole lot less people at Comiket. Just take one glance at the amount of fanwork around Japanese animes, games, and manga in the Internet. All of them are technically illegal, but most Japanese companies have either ignored it or encouraged them to a certain degree.

^^^
The above statement is not legal counsel.

[bloodywyvern]

For some reason, I doubt the chances of you getting into trouble are very high if the English company that published it is dead. Don't take my word for it, but copyright laws are generally alot more relaxed in Japan. That explains why the entire realm of doujin exists in the first place. If Japanese companies actually sued people for copyright infringement, then there would be a whole lot less people at Comiket. Just take one glance at the amount of fanwork around Japanese animes, games, and manga in the Internet. All of them are technically illegal, but most Japanese companies have either ignored it or encouraged them to a certain degree.

^^^
The above statement is not legal counsel.

It all depends on how it corresponds to their sales, if it increases or stays at a level situation then all is well. They will sit back and let people enjoy it. However, as soon as their money starts becoming jeopardized it's all over. They will pounce on you in some sort of hope taking a single fan attempt off the rack will get a few more sales. It is certainly difficult for them to cross country sue anyone, due to the lax and vague Japanese copyright laws.

If the English company is dead, then yes chances are things are fine since they are usually the ones to pursue the attack (as, it's not just the Japanese company losing money now, but the English one as well). Fan work is acceptable up until a loss in sales. Taking an old classic to remake is a lot safer I'd think. If it was more modern, you might have a bigger issue.

[MorphineSoldier]

Lordie: No, the cliche is that "All publicity is good publicity." and everyone with a brain knows that isn't true. Especially since it contradicts "No news is good news."

And as far as I can tell no. They went under, which is understandable. The market then was too small. Even now with the rising popularity of anime and other Japanese things, the VN market in the West is infinitesimal - all but non-existant. [Just look at how Hirameki had to go, and they were one of the GOOD companies. JAST maintains market dominance simply by having the only real foot-hold available.]

And just as an example of why this could be majorly opposed by actual businesses - you can obviously see that all of us here have MAJOR respect for the original title. This is what businesses would call an exploitable asset. In a crisis, they could potentially recover by releasing a SPECIAL EDITION RE-RELEASE of True Love. It'd cost them virtually nothing, and yield profit.
Allowing a free remake would hinder the successfulness of such a venture, possibly grinding it to a full halt.

Bad business there. Also the Japanese company is Japanese, and that means xenophobia, and that means they may RAWR at the very IDEA of a gaijin handling their property. They don't actually like us very much.

Samu: True. Very true. We enjoy fan-subs for that reason. =3 BecausetheAmericancompaniesarereallyfuckingslow.

[Lordie]

Hmm, very interesting what you guys are saying here, and I appreciate it.

So this leads me to two options:
1. Beeing an ass and ignore all warnings and continue with the original idea
2. Make my own game, with same kind of setup (with the RPG style things with skills etc), new story/script characters, names, places and so on.

Which one would most of you guys prefer? Since my intention isn't to make it look that I'm discgrasing True Love by remaking it, but really to honor it. (I hope that wasn't too confusing)

[bloodywyvern]

Hmm, very interesting what you guys are saying here, and I appreciate it.

So this leads me to two options:
1. Beeing an ass and ignore all warnings and continue with the original idea
2. Make my own game, with same kind of setup (with the RPG style things with skills etc), new story/script characters, names, places and so on.

Which one would most of you guys prefer? Since my intention isn't to make it look that I'm discgrasing True Love by remaking it, but really to honor it. (I hope that wasn't too confusing)

The worst offenses are started with the best intentions.

I'd personally prefer the second one (though you'd have to add writing jobs to it at that point, which would of course make it harder). Though from reading everything, I'd say your safer then most when it comes to being asked to stop distribution after your hard work of a remake.

[MorphineSoldier]

Agreed with above. You'll get far more gratification from making something that's truly your own anyways.

[Lordie]

Hmm, by the looks of it, I would mostly land on making my own. However, I'll have to talk to the core members of the group first and explain why etc.
Since we haven't really begun coding or drawing or really anything yet (just planing) I'd say we're pretty flexible about this.

The thing we can do, is to add in the credits or wherever we see fit, that the idea was to honor the spirit of True Love or something along those lines.

[renkenjutsu]

Hooray for number 2! Good luck with your endeavor I'm definitely going to be keeping track of this.

[chronoluminaire]

My opinions on your two routes aren't quite as clear as "Go for number 2", so I'll go into a little more detail.

Route 1 is fraught with difficulties. To create something of equivalent scope to this commercial game, as a bunch of amateurs for free, will be a very difficult undertaking. Especially if you haven't released a game already.

I'm not sure if the game is abandonware now. If the copyright holders notice the remake, they'll almost certainly tell you to stop. And really, that is completely their right, by both the letter and the spirit of the law. Particularly English translations of Japanese VNs are such a small market that piracy really does damage them, and even great companies like Hirameki go out of business. The market just isn't big enough for a company to let a free version of one of their products go free.

So option 1 is a bit damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't. If your remake isn't up to the very high standards set by the original, then a lot of people will be unhappy with you, and look down on your effort. If somehow you do manage to meet or exceed the original's level, then you have the threat of legal action by the original holders always hanging over you.


Route 2 has a different set of challenges. You're completely free from expectations, and indeed free from the constraints of the original game. (Even those of us who loved the game could probably find something that we'd like to change about it.) Plus you're also free to scale down the scope a bit... if 10 girls is too many to write, then you can write a similar game but with just 3 or 5 girls. You can have the game be clearly "inspired by" True Love, in the same way as Shoujo Attack and Flea Circus are "inspired by" Lemmings. But you could get in trouble if the character designs are blatantly copied from their originals, and you probably shouldn't use the precise same names, even if everything else is the same.


So overall, I think Route 1 could - conceivably - produce something wonderful. But there's a very large chance of failure in such a large undertaking, and even if you did succeed, there'd be problems. Route 2 seems a more sensible choice, and those of us who care about copyright will be able to cheer you along with a clearer conscience if you take Route 2.

Whichever route you take, I wish you success and fun, creating and releasing a great game in the fine dating-sim tradition

[monele]

Honestly, go with route 2 . Sure, it's harder since the core (story, characters) won't be there anymore... but it'll also be a much better success if it works out and it'll give something *new* to people. As much as I like True Love, I've played it enough as it is ^^;. Just new graphics would have me go "ooh yea, that's pretty... yeah..." and then stop after playing one hour once I've seen most of the new pretty drawings.