Seraphine: Into the Wind

[broken_angel]

Personally, I thought it was pretty obvious from the beginning that she was crazy. xD

Within the first several minutes, that's revealed pretty well...I spent the rest of the time trying to figure out whether she was actually crazy or if there was another reason behind her strange behavior.

But even without that element, just the fact that she seems to be very daydreamy at the beginning within an obviously busy business should be enough to make people not like her. And I got the feeling that the innkeeper (or whoever that lady was who was always scolding her) took her in because she had to, not because she thought she thought she would be of any help.

[Aleema]

(For reference, this is basically one of the reasons I stopped reading the first Harry Potter book. His foster family abuse him for no good reason and he takes it with the maturity of someone twice his age, and if the movie was anything to go by goes on to get his revenge; it couldn't be more typical eleven-year-old-fantasy material if it tried [harder]. I realise the book was written for eleven-year-olds, of course. )

That's funny, because I stopped reading the first Harry Potter myself ... I wonder if that has anything to do with it? Actually, it might. If I recall, I stopped reading either right before he went to Hogwarts or right after. But since I was borrowing the book, I had to pretend I read it, but the person gave me the next in the series as a result. I went on a trip to mountains, had a lot of time on my hands ... long story short, my sister and I couldn't be more excited to see the new Harry Potter movie. So she sucked me into her stories after you get past that "oh, he's a mary sue but a guy" part and just go with it. "He's super special. Okay. *sigh* What are you going to do with him?" And it turned out to be ensnaring. I could only hope for a fraction of that.

But even without that element, just the fact that she seems to be very daydreamy at the beginning within an obviously busy business should be enough to make people not like her. And I got the feeling that the innkeeper (or whoever that lady was who was always scolding her) took her in because she had to, not because she thought she thought she would be of any help.

Yeah, I didn't think it would come off as being mistreated unrightly, just because we didn't see immediately why she would be acting that way. Even so, even if Ere was perfectly normal before then, I still see some truth to the barmaid's attitude, because I get really bitchy when I'm stressed out and people who are supposed to help me are twiddling their thumbs. (While working backstage on shows is my experience in learning this about me. "If you don't f*cking get that chair out there right now I swear to god.") I regret it later, but in the moment, it seems like the most important thing. -_-

[mikisweety]

I understood pretty quickly there was something off about her.

If I remember my thinking correctly... First, with the set up, I thought, "Great. Harry Potter." (sorry. It's just, she was abused, and there was that prologue about the seraphine so I assumed she would be one. And for the record, I like HP). But, like broken_angel said, the barmaid just seemed like... a boss. If anything, I got Ere's sense of isolation from the beginning, which made me empathized with her. Then... she was throwing her head against the wall, and that's when I went. O.o CRAZY?! (or depressed, possibly). Either way, I think there's a good enough mix of sympathy/empathy and "the girl's off her rocket".

If anything stands in the way of that, it would the writing. I got your point, but I didn't find the scenes where she went "crazy", be it at the market or at the inn, well-written. The pacing felt slightly off and you told me she felt "out of control" after the fact instead of making me feel her distress (or madness) in the moment. With the viewpoint you're taking on the VN (personal 3rd person) that is a concern. And regarding the writing, it was quite good in general - I've mentioned before you have a knack for dialogue. You DON'T, however, have a knack for description, and you clearly don't write often in that "high fantasy" voice. Being a VN, you can get away with a certain amount, but I still feel more immediate world-building needs to be done, and not just from the journal. It's missing that hallmark indulgence in description and character forays, plus the long complex sentences. You mentioned you wanted that get that stilted quality, and I like that idea, but it wasn't executed well. Sentences, are short, and word usages are just awkward, not archaic. This is coming from someone who loves Victorian novels and read purely high fantasy as a kid, so take it as you will. Also, I noticed A LOT of typos too, which is probably because you rushed this out, but I think you should call on a proofreader. (I downloaded the latest version, are the typos people have been reporting fixed yet on that?) That and the wrong word usages were pretty distracting, and they're easy fixes.

By the way, I love the death ritual scene. Absolutely beautiful, complemented perfectly by the music (which in general is very good, by the way. Did you commission or is that free music?). The "animation sequences" have the same abstract, dark, ethereal quality to them. I found them a GREAT touch. I don't even mind the silhouettes. Sure, some of them are not... particularly well-drawn, but they're emotive, and creates this air of privacy around the characters. I actually found the actual CG you had looking a little out of place, with the coloring. I also happen to like the sprites (though the guys could be a bit more attractive. :/), which is in the right direction for games like this. I agree it doesn't match the backgrounds. I also found the textbox to be extremely jarring, which people have pointed out. The font shouldn't be so industrial-looking. It should look like a storybook. The textbox itself is really blocky, and the menus feel incongruous with the paint-y looks of the backgrounds and the story for the same reason.

Regarding the plot, yes, it was rather implausible as soon as you hit Jak City. That they could just waltz in, and that the guard would just so readily tell them where/how to get to the captain is mighty suspicious. Shouldn't... they already KNOW that, being Jaks? And Ere being able to imitate a Jak voice but being so ignorant otherwise about their lives. Where'd she learn it anyhow? Either way, when we hit that point it got derailed. Also, Gerald disliking it if you chose to do the "unladylike thing" or Basil making you submit to his opinions irked me, but that makes me wonder, wouldn't they have a problem with you being a scout in the first place? Anyway, if misogyny is supposed to be integrated into the game, that would be GREAT, and I'd like hints or delving into that meaty aspect, and it would fit into the world you've drawn, but if it's not to be address, I don't know how I feel about them being potential loves.

That's it then. xD Everything aside, I kinda love the world you've set up (I read all the journal entries.... ) and I'm particularly fond of Ere. She's a character you could really mold. The guys I can't QUITE judge yet but I'm intrigued. I criticize a lot, but I love. Can't wait to see more. <3 You have such a magic touch, Aleema.

[Starling]

Hrrm, what do you mean? Like an overlay button that's always there? "Menu" or some such stuff? I've never done those in my game before. I guess I just love keyboard shortcuts, lol. If I can find a place for it ... sure. Right now all my corners are occupied.

I'm glad you liked the game. Though you said a bunch of good stuff, the "off putting sprites" is still echoing in my mind to where I wanna bash my head against a wall. =P I agree that you can get used to them, but I have a feeling some people won't want to. Ah well.

Yes to the overlay button. It's also partially because I always forget the keyboard shortcuts LOL, but it would also make it easier.

As for the sprites, if people don't play because they don't like it, than it is their loss. Even if they're off-putting, when I say quickly got used to I mean after like 5 seconds. I love the fact you don't use traditional VN art styles. It makes it interesting.

Good luck, btw, it'll be a while until you go back to this I'd assume cause of RR, but when you do, good luck.

[Aleema]

Miki! I just wanna tell you the whole plot and workshop and crap, because I feel like I can tell you anything, thanks to RR.

If anything stands in the way of that, it would the writing.

;_; Nothing gets by you. I'm a crap writer, and I'll be the first to admit it. I haven't read as much as I should, and I haven't written as much as I should. You're really damn good at it, I've read some of your stuff. Since the project has been so ... close to my chest, having it workshopped really didn't happen. Neither was it proofed, erm, proofed thoroughly, I'll say. And I believe that no workshopping and definitely no proofing = bad idea. And I'm going to be very real here, the plot of this story is based off a dream (warning sign #1) and was an attempt for a NaNoWriMo (warning sign #2). So I'm not expecting this to be my magnus opus, if you know what I mean. I just wanted to make an RPG, and while I was developing my fake world, I realized I knew the least about Edernim. Okay. Set a story there. Then I'll know it real quick.

Sentences, are short, and word usages are just awkward, not archaic. This is coming from someone who loves Victorian novels and read purely high fantasy as a kid, so take it as you will.

... help me.

By the way, I love the death ritual scene. Absolutely beautiful, complemented perfectly by the music (which in general is very good, by the way. Did you commission or is that free music?).

Erik Haddad did not compose for this project. He offers his music up for licensing, which works me -- in time when I used to have money. I have commissioned for the world before, and I can give you the themes to Balion, Rhagorn, Haskin, etc. But they're too different a style to use for this game.

I'm glad the silhouettes are being so well received. I thought everyone would feel cheated or think me lazy or something. I will continue to make them with confidence, and I think I will take the Blewh CGs out of the game. They'll be there, but for the ending credits.

I'll work on the GUI to make it more betterer.

though the guys could be a bit more attractive. :/

:O That's so shallow! They have beautiful ... personalities! xD
Though, seriously, I know what you mean, though I disagree, but then, I know all about these guys, so it's easy for me. If they were just eye candy, then Waylon would be a sexy guy instead of an old coot, and the party would be a reverse harem or something, lol. I guess it's weird I'm making a GxB game with less than stellar guys, but if they were very, very handsome, I'd personally be kinda turned off. I love exploring character relationships more than writing just "two very hot people making teh babiez" which is what a bunch of bishie guys would scream to me. It would take me out of the drab atmosphere, too. Uh, not that I'm arguing against what you're saying, just that I really don't mind 100%. If they're ugly because of the art, then I'll be more inclined to agree. If it's ugly because red long haired guys aren't great main guy material or something, I'll say: "b*tch, please." xD

That they could just waltz in, and that the guard would just so readily tell them where/how to get to the captain is mighty suspicious.

He's got no honor. Either route, it was his skin on the line, and getting them to the Captain couldn't really be traced back to him. I agree they kinda blow their cover asking about how to meet the Captain, though. I would say, in general, the Jaks put up with the Shinys (damnit -- NORMAL FOLK) because they're their main source of business. Assassinations and the like. But I have opened a can of worms in Jak City, because it's so open for complex building, and I just kinda usher them through. I fix, yes?

Also, Gerald disliking it if you chose to do the "unladylike thing" or Basil making you submit to his opinions irked me, but that makes me wonder, wouldn't they have a problem with you being a scout in the first place? Anyway, if misogyny is supposed to be integrated into the game, that would be GREAT, and I'd like hints or delving into that meaty aspect, and it would fit into the world you've drawn, but if it's not to be address, I don't know how I feel about them being potential loves.

Super interesting point. Just to clear things up (if you meant Lander instead of "Gerald"), Lander hates it when you put yourself in danger (though I suppose that can mean ladylike), and Basil hates it when you lead him straight into traps. He's paranoid like that. xD So I really didn't mean for "act like a subservient lady" to be the point of those decisions. Still, this isn't a completely gender equal world, so there will be hints of that, but not when it comes to branching a story or getting a guy's ending. Story-wise, the girls might be asked to leave rooms when the men talk and having to protect maiden honor and crap like that. But really, I'm not going to let it get in the way of a good character ("girls don't use swords" or something) or force the player to have to act like an oppressed woman to get the guy they want. That would be totally backwards from what I would want to play, and like you said, not something I would like reflected in my love interests. (I'm on your side, remember? Trust me.) On a side note, Basil did have a problem with Ere being a girl, I just didn't make a big deal out of it. I really didn't want to go there or drag something like that out. "omg a girl wtf better believe it! girl powah!!" lol. There are tales of the Ederwives who were warrior women, and while they historically did live, they're kinda considered a fairytale or overly romanticized at this point. Like vikings (or pirates, or ninjas) are to us. Keeping women to their "traditional roles" is something the rich try to do to ignore the state of barbarism the land has been driven to (and the poor like to pretend they're rich, so ...), but a woman with a weapon is okay pretty much. Being really good at it is another story. Women don't get formally trained, and are not expected to have experience to learn on their own.

... Sorry. I really should save that crap for the glossary. >_< I like world building too much.

@ Star: I'll see what I can do!

[mikisweety]

Let's see... Aleema, I've got bucketloads of time around Christmas and Thanksgiving. I can offer you my proofreader/editor services if you want. I don't know how much you've written, so I can't say for sure I'll see you through everything, but I can definitely cover the extent of the demo. Let's work it out through PMs on RR (Also, side note: I'll get to do RR stuff this month! Yay! xD)

Yes. Lander. (Where the hell did I get Gerald from?! It's not even in anything I've read lately...) *cough* I'm glad to know you did the subtle misogyny on purpose. (Though on a personal note, I find Lander's attitude more aggravating, since he wraps up the impression that he doesn't think you can handle yourself in concern). In the case of Basil, it actually compliments his character (noble, proud, etc). I just thought I'd put it on your radar just so you could get a picture of my first impressions, and pat yourself on the back since readers picked it up. You're right, it'd be totally lame to have a girl-power moment. Limiting the range of the game (since you don't want a magnum opus, though really... wth did you pick high fantasy then? xD), you don't need to address this issue world-wide. Just with the guys. All I would need is an instance where they go (subtly), "oh, this girl CAN take care of herself." Maybe in Jak city? And I do love your subtlety with showing it and want it carried over to resolving it. And it's not SUCH a impediment I loathe the guys so far, but it'd be a nice detail lending depth to world and characters. I trust in you to deal with all that. ^.^

Yes. Jak City --> more world building. There' SO much opportunity there. Also, like I said, if their movement is so limited, how does Ere know a Jak accent? As for art... I'm sorry, I admit I am a little shallow. xD It's just... Ere is REALLY pretty. All the girls are, actually... *sobs* But no, I'm quite fond of Basil, stuck up brat that he is. (Lander's just not my cup of tea). So your personality philosophy works out pretty well. Indeed, his look has been growing on me, and I generally dislike long hair guys (Beau*cough*). Maybe it's because I'm a ginger lover.

[Aleema]

Yay! yayayay. Yesh, let's work on the demo when you have time ... and then you can scold me for my awful plot and you'll teach me how period people speak and I will type itz and we will have a game. Yay.

Gerald might have come from Geirlaug, maybe? maybe.

I think you're right. Some mild recognition of her capability (outside of the bartender thing in Hodgewick) will be helpful once they realize they might be together longer than they thought. So it's not just ... grit your teeth and get over it.

I picked fantasy because I like fantasy. I would say that, while I don't consider this be to like ... the culmination of my life has been leading up to this story (lol). I do think Edernim's tale to be an integral part of Marta's story, which is what I have more expectation for. Meaning, this is one leg of what I would like to see be 4 chapters that will weave together at one point for super climax party time. So I'm taking the world very seriously, but I didn't mean for Ere to represent my "best heroine" or character, or her arc to stand as my "best" material. She's one of four I'd like to touch upon. Not that I want to take any lightly, I just don't want to spend all my awesome points on one story.

You think Ere is very pretty? huh, I thought she was a little plain, or a quiet beautiful. Maybe I just have her original face in my head, and worried I didn't fix it well enough. But Ysabel and Narkissa ... and the other girls. Yeah, they are pretty. Again, I blame Strider for that. xD

And yes, thank you very much for your first impressions! I think I'm partially blinded by everything I know about the characters to see what they come off as in the beginning. They'll say or do this, because of that, but in the short-term, it might just turn you off. I didn't realize my "good" choices for the characters were so stifling to her womanhood, but you're right and I see that now. Though, I don't think they'd respond too well to her being very, very, very odd at the beginning, so hopefully as the game progresses, her "good" choices are more independent or strong. Which is something I planned for her character anyway.

But yes, we can talk about Jak City and how to handle it better when you have time ...

[Jake]

Geirlaug

Incidentally, this was another thing that felt a little odd, playing through the demo, that I forgot before. "Landrea" sounds a bit romantic, "Geirlaug" sounds teutonic, and "Thjodhild" sounds pretty nordic... like all the places were named by people who spoke a different language but somehow came to be in the same country.

[Aleema]

While I agree it is a mess of names, having them all very similar would be basically like shoving you into a real foreign country you don't speak the language of and expecting you to tell the difference right away. If they were all Geirlaug Lauergre Namgerdog Glashingog Spageir etc, that would make your brain frown, because it would all just be white noise. The other part is me just being used to whatever-you-want naming convention of cities in America, but that's because we're a melting pot.

There will be multiple languages introduced in the game, though. Isolde speaks one, and the Haskin speak another. The archaic language of the land is one more, and count any travelers, and that's more. On the coast we see names like Landrea, Regana, Olinda ... They're Caeryn influenced. Geirlaug is a dude's name, so it can be as weird as I want, but his naming convention is going to be recognizable. Places like Thjodhild, Wynhild, Fredegand, and Hodgewick are from the same language. And relatively new settlements are called recognizably "English" things like Stout, Croft, or Huntley. I'm trying for it to make sense, linguistically, but it's still a very fake language that I don't actually know. Just have a taste for. I'd love to have Tolkein's degree and mind and write the entirety of the the elven language. =P But I'm just a cheap imitator.

[azureXtwilight]

I am sorry if this has been brought up...

Somehow after I exited the game a log appears, it says:

Code: Select all

D:\Program Files\Seraphine Demo 2.0-all\renpy\store.py:695: UnicodeWarning: Unicode equal comparison failed to convert both arguments to Unicode - interpreting them as being unequal
D:\Program Files\Seraphine Demo 2.0-all\renpy\store.py:695: UnicodeWarning: Unicode equal comparison failed to convert both arguments to Unicode - interpreting them as being unequal
D:\Program Files\Seraphine Demo 2.0-all\renpy\store.py:519: UnicodeWarning: Unicode equal comparison failed to convert both arguments to Unicode - interpreting them as being unequal
D:\Program Files\Seraphine Demo 2.0-all\renpy\store.py:519: UnicodeWarning: Unicode equal comparison failed to convert both arguments to Unicode - interpreting them as being unequal

[Aleema]

Thanks, azure! Yes this is a known issue.

[Aleema]

Okay! Dropbox alert. They just sent me this email:

"This email is an automated notification from Dropbox that your Public links have been temporarily suspended on account of generating excessive traffic. Your Dropbox will continue to function completely normally with the exception of Public links."

So ... the link may not work anymore. xD I will try uploading it somewhere else soon.

[mikisweety]

Pain as it may be, I consider the "excessive traffic" a good thing. Go Aleema & her awesomesauce projects!!

[Aleema]

Tru dat. Though I'm not sure what dropbox would consider excessive. "More than 5 people!? NO MORE!!" I was pretty surprised it worked at all, frankly. xD So I guess they're more for personal filesharing.

Edit: "Links that use up more than 10GB/day are suspended" ... cool beans, y'all.

I've uploaded v2.1 to my own hosting, so the download link should work again.
Some typos and the error when closing should be fixed. Glossary is still shiat and will crash if you save after leaving. I tried fixing this, but the error is only if you hyperlinked to it (not if you went there through the menu), so not sure how to fix it yet ...

[Mihwa]

I really am looking forward to the full release. :3