Offering BGM services

[Taleweaver]

The music you've listened to will be the theme music for one of the two major male characters in the game, Koe. I think it defines his personality quite well.

[shizeetv2]

Bump.

[Taleweaver]

Bump what? You did more asianesque stuff ? ^^

[rioka]

I think he means bump as in bumping the thread up to remind folks that his services are still available. 'Course, he could have hit his head...

[bookie]

Ooh, your services are still available eh? I'd be interested in asking for some music, but I'm in an odd prediciment where I'm not sure what music I'd want, I just know it might help make the game a little better. Damn, I really have no idea. T_T

[ShiraiJunichi]

I'm kind of in the same boat. I really want to get some music, but I'm not sure what I want- and I'm not sure how I'll put it into words once I figure it out. But, I'm definitely planning on relying on your services, shizeetv2- so don't go AWOL, ok? ^_^

[Icekiss]

Well, if you are interested in offering it, I sure would take background music for my game (which really needs to be named), if you are willing to make it.
Look into the thread "DSE game in the works" (http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=602), try the demo out, and look whether you would be willing to do it.

Requirements:
-Since the game is released under the GPL, so would accompanying music. You'd have to be willing to release those pieces of music under the GPL to contribute.
-The music has to be loopable (matching start and end)

I could imagine two tracks: One peaceful, quiet and contempative one, which plays when the pc is alone (diary, day planning, own room, wandering the city). And another that plays whenever the pc interacts with other characters, and is a bit more lively and upbeat.
The more the music can reflect the character and mood of the pc, the better, I think.
Since the game takes place in the present time, medieval soundtracks wouldn't really be appropriate.

Adding in more tracks later is always possible, but I think that would make for a good start.

This designation of tracks to game content is only my suggestion. If you have a different inspiration after looking at the game: Go on, you are the musician. As long as the result sounds good, I will follow your suggestions.

I'd include music in the ogg format. I can convert from mp3 myself, but that's a bit lossy.
I would definitely provide two downloads: One with music, and one without. If you music creation process naturally gives you midis (or mods, as PyTom seems to prefer those) as well, I would include those in the smaller download instead.

I don't know whether there are any experiments you want to try while mixing music with games, but if there is anything, let me know.
I am completely willing to produce code that sticks music pieces together based upon some arcane rules, or modifies them on the fly. Only stipulation is that Ren'Py has to support it, so we might have to ask PyTom's help in such a case.
Anyway, just an offer.

[shizeetv2]

Bump what? You did more asianesque stuff ? ^^

Heh. If you want some more, I'll be glad to try.

I think he means bump as in bumping the thread up to remind folks that his services are still available. 'Course, he could have hit his head...

Great, now I'm probably jinxed.

Ooh, your services are still available eh? I'd be interested in asking for some music, but I'm in an odd prediciment where I'm not sure what music I'd want, I just know it might help make the game a little better. Damn, I really have no idea. T_T

I'm kind of in the same boat. I really want to get some music, but I'm not sure what I want- and I'm not sure how I'll put it into words once I figure it out. But, I'm definitely planning on relying on your services, shizeetv2- so don't go AWOL, ok? ^_^

One simple solution to that is to simply provide me the background information of the scene/event for a track. I'll try to interpret as best as I can, and forward it back to you for further evalution and refinement. If I give you something to start with, you can probably synergize off of that and have a better picture in how you want it.

Well, if you are interested in offering it, I sure would take background music for my game (which really needs to be named), if you are willing to make it.
Look into the thread "DSE game in the works" (http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=602), try the demo out, and look whether you would be willing to do it.

Requirements:
-Since the game is released under the GPL, so would accompanying music. You'd have to be willing to release those pieces of music under the GPL to contribute.
-The music has to be loopable (matching start and end)

I could imagine two tracks: One peaceful, quiet and contempative one, which plays when the pc is alone (diary, day planning, own room, wandering the city). And another that plays whenever the pc interacts with other characters, and is a bit more lively and upbeat.
The more the music can reflect the character and mood of the pc, the better, I think.
Since the game takes place in the present time, medieval soundtracks wouldn't really be appropriate.

Adding in more tracks later is always possible, but I think that would make for a good start.

This designation of tracks to game content is only my suggestion. If you have a different inspiration after looking at the game: Go on, you are the musician. As long as the result sounds good, I will follow your suggestions.

I'd include music in the ogg format. I can convert from mp3 myself, but that's a bit lossy.
I would definitely provide two downloads: One with music, and one without. If you music creation process naturally gives you midis (or mods, as PyTom seems to prefer those) as well, I would include those in the smaller download instead.

I don't know whether there are any experiments you want to try while mixing music with games, but if there is anything, let me know.
I am completely willing to produce code that sticks music pieces together based upon some arcane rules, or modifies them on the fly. Only stipulation is that Ren'Py has to support it, so we might have to ask PyTom's help in such a case.
Anyway, just an offer.

Sounds good. I have to ask, though, what is this "GPL"? It sounds like it's some sort of open-source archive, but I don't know for sure.

As for the track suggestion, those two would make a fine start, especially if for a demo or such. Eventually, though, you might want to further divide the game's contents for more music, into smaller abstract (ie, a sad theme, a panic theme) and/or concrete (ie, character themes, location themes) instances.

OGG I can work with, but I can also provide (hopefully, well-balanced)MIDI versions for the "lite" package.

As for experimentation... well, I was alway one who would've liked more interactive music in video games (excluding the music-based games such as DDR and Beatmania). For simple renai games, however, it may be hard to experiment, at least from a technical perspective. But another way to approach it is to use the music as an extension of the storytelling itself , such as arranging all the event tracks so that they follow a logical sequence, like a story (as a character develops, so does his theme to reflect those changes). It's a small touch that many games/movies sort of use already, but perhaps not to the scope I'm proposing.

Anyways, chew on that for a bit and tell me what you think .

[Icekiss]

I have to ask, though, what is this "GPL"?

The GPL (short for GNU Public License) is not an archive, but a license. It basically says that others can use and modify your work, as long as they rerelease the modified or unmodified version under the same license, and not a different one.
link to license text: http://www.opensource.org/licenses/gpl-license.php

Most linux software is released under this license.
There are other similar licenses, some especially aimed at artwork, but the GPL is simply the most widely used, and the most battle-tested.
And since the code is released under this license, its easiest to use the same license for the artwork, if only to keep things simple.

As for the track suggestion, those two would make a fine start, especially if for a demo or such. Eventually, though, you might want to further divide the game's contents for more music, into smaller abstract (ie, a sad theme, a panic theme) and/or concrete (ie, character themes, location themes) instances.

Yes, of course that's possible, and it's easy to incorporate as well.
Diary entries could have their own music, and certain locations could have their own music (school, for example).

But one has to start somewhere, and so I thought that might something that could work. After all, its weird if half of the game has music, and the other half doesn't.
But if you'd prefer a different initial division for which track to play where: As I said, go ahead!

Either way later specialization can always be done.

But another way to approach it is to use the music as an extension of the storytelling itself , such as arranging all the event tracks so that they follow a logical sequence, like a story (as a character develops, so does his theme to reflect those changes). It's a small touch that many games/movies sort of use already, but perhaps not to the scope I'm proposing.

I read up what I could about Ren'Py's music support. There currently seems to be a limitation to one music (=non-wav) track playing at once, so it's not possible right now. But PyTom has promised to rewrite the sound library:

Unfortunately, the current sound library only supports playing one sound at a time (in conjunction with a number of wavs). So I will need to rewrite (in C) the sound library.

This will happen soon. Up until the start of this week I was busy working 2 or 3 jobs, and this week I've been spending my Ren'Py time helping someone to ready... well, never you mind. But I figure I'll have some free time in the next week or so to devote to this. We'll see.

so it might be something to keep in mind for a bit later down the road.

The character has stats (and all npcs have them as well), so one could possibly define treshhold values upon reaching which certain music parts are mixed in, or left out.
(And there are stats among them that I could well imagine to influence the music: Ethic, Emotionality, Intelligence, Reputation, Sex [male or female])
One could also look at the state of relationships. For distinctions based on storyline, there simply isn't enough story there yet.
Anyway, lets start of with having any music at all?

As soon as the library support for it is there, you can get a free hand for creating rules that overlay music tracks (As in: you describe them to me, and I code them in).

Ask away what you need to know, and correct the things I misunderstood.

[shizeetv2]

I read up what I could about Ren'Py's music support. There currently seems to be a limitation to one music (=non-wav) track playing at once, so it's not possible right now. But PyTom has promised to rewrite the sound library:

Unfortunately, the current sound library only supports playing one sound at a time (in conjunction with a number of wavs). So I will need to rewrite (in C) the sound library.

This will happen soon. Up until the start of this week I was busy working 2 or 3 jobs, and this week I've been spending my Ren'Py time helping someone to ready... well, never you mind. But I figure I'll have some free time in the next week or so to devote to this. We'll see.

so it might be something to keep in mind for a bit later down the road.

The character has stats (and all npcs have them as well), so one could possibly define treshhold values upon reaching which certain music parts are mixed in, or left out.
(And there are stats among them that I could well imagine to influence the music: Ethic, Emotionality, Intelligence, Reputation, Sex [male or female])
One could also look at the state of relationships. For distinctions based on storyline, there simply isn't enough story there yet.
Anyway, lets start of with having any music at all?

As soon as the library support for it is there, you can get a free hand for creating rules that overlay music tracks (As in: you describe them to me, and I code them in).

Ask away what you need to know, and correct the things I misunderstood.

Actually, what I was suggesting is simply to have the music branch in much the same way as the story-paths do (ie, a trigger or variable determines what is played when), but what you are suggesting is much more intriguing. It would be kind of neat to have a sort of musical matrix where you can pull out themes determined by the character stats.

[Icekiss]

Well, I am sorry I misunderstood what you said then.

But I am not sorry at all, if that misunderstanding inspired you.

It would be kind of neat to have a sort of musical matrix where you can pull out themes determined by the character stats.

Well that was the picture your description invoked in my head. I'm no musician, so I have no idea whether or not that is feasable. But wouldn't it be really cool if there was one "character theme", composed based on the stats of the main character while in the day planner (or maybe the diary?), and based on the npc's stats whenever a character theme is appropriate for anyone else? That way, music could become an integral part of the game. Because you could hear, but not see, what a different character was like.
(But it would also mean that character themes would in general have to be pretty laid back and introspective, because that is the general mood needed for the day planner. But that would make sense anyway, I think.)
As I said, I am no musician, I don't know whether or not any of this is feasable. Its just the vision that struck me shortly after reading your post.

Now I'll settle in and wait - either for more questions, or for something for me to comment on.

Just a suggestion: Even though it's only a tech demo, I'd advise you to try it out. It does contain enough text to give you a general feel for the main character, and for the setting and style the game is set in. And I'd think working on any part of a whole will yield better results after having seen the bigger picture.

[/tuneout]

[shizeetv2]

But wouldn't it be really cool if there was one "character theme", composed based on the stats of the main character while in the day planner (or maybe the diary?), and based on the npc's stats whenever a character theme is appropriate for anyone else? That way, music could become an integral part of the game. Because you could hear, but not see, what a different character was like.

You know, I alway wanted to do a sort of musical piece which had variable sections; my idea before though was in context to concert music, which say perhaps you had a piece consisting of 10 sections, with 5 different possibility for each section. Ideally, any combination would work smoothly yet distinctly as a piece, thus implying 5^10 (nearly 10 million!) different performances could be giving, and that doesn't even include the interpretation variable!

Your idea is certainly an intriguing one, though certainly technically challenging. Of course, recording every single possibility and putting them in a matrix may be impractical, as even as 4 possible sections per section in a 4 section piece would require 16 pieces. Even if it was a short 2-3 minute piece, getting recording it would probably take 1-2 mb (at probably 64kps/44100 khz for OGG) per event and we end up laying down 16-32 mb just for that "one" piece of music. If you could smoothly "splice" together the seperate sections with the code, that'd certainly be preferable (it'd be nice if it could be so seemless that you'd be hard-pressed to find out where the section one section ends and another begins) - but I have a feeling that the timing'll most likely depend on processing speeds, so it'd be hard to keep it in control.

Just a suggestion: Even though it's only a tech demo, I'd advise you to try it out. It does contain enough text to give you a general feel for the main character, and for the setting and style the game is set in. And I'd think working on any part of a whole will yield better results after having seen the bigger picture.

Sure, I'll try to download it as soon as I can - hopefully, I should be able to get something presentable by tonight (EDT).

[/tuneout]

|^^^^|^^^^|

[PyTom]

You know, I alway wanted to do a sort of musical piece which had variable sections; my idea before though was in context to concert music, which say perhaps you had a piece consisting of 10 sections, with 5 different possibility for each section. Ideally, any combination would work smoothly yet distinctly as a piece, thus implying 5^10 (nearly 10 million!) different performances could be giving, and that doesn't even include the interpretation variable!

Have you ever seen Mozart's musical dice game?

http://sunsite.univie.ac.at/Mozart/dice/

That has around 1.3 * 10^29 combinations... enough to last you for a while.

If you could smoothly "splice" together the seperate sections with the code, that'd certainly be preferable (it'd be nice if it could be so seemless that you'd be hard-pressed to find out where the section one section ends and another begins) - but I have a feeling that the timing'll most likely depend on processing speeds, so it'd be hard to keep it in control.

This is actually a feature I have planned for the sound rewrite in 5.1. You'll be able to queue up music in a sample-accurate manner, so stuff like this will work seamlessly. (Actually, it might work in the current version, and I haven't tried it.)

This'll only work for PCM-based music (ogg, mp3, mod, wav, etc...), but won't work for midis, as the midis have to go through a far more convoluted path before they are played.

(I'm debating removing midi support entirely, but that would have a detrimental effect on song size, so I'm still up in the air about it. Anyone know a decent midi->mod converter?)

[Taleweaver]

I'd still like some more music for "Foxtaile". The piece I already have will be Koe's theme. Do more; I'm sure we can fit it all somewhere.

[Megaman Z]

(I'm debating removing midi support entirely, but that would have a detrimental effect on song size, so I'm still up in the air about it. Anyone know a decent midi->mod converter?)

http://medlem.spray.se/converters/ (you'll have to decide which one to use, I've found two.)