[Suspended] Second Semester (iPhone)

[dstarsboy]

Just updated the progress.

Wow, now I know why this takes years for some people to develop a VN and why so many are left in the dust.

This is pretty crazy! I finally finished the script and it's, like, 2000 lines long! And the entire time I kept going back over it and critiquing myself and saying, "No, that sucks... this part is dumb... change this... blah blah blah" and some parts I'm just like "I don't care anymore, ugghhhhh". How do you guys stay focused on this? It's like a serious chore and not fun at all. I actually dread going home at night to work on my VN.

Am I alone in these thoughts or does everyone go through this at some stage in making their games? If so, how do you power through it?

Of course, I'm going to finish it but I can honestly say I'm having trouble giving it my best effort.

[happysnowXD]

...If you finish this game I wanna play it has interesting people and it looks fun

[Voight-Kampff]

I for one, am impressed.

To be honest, what really got my attention with VNs was the development of the App Store.

The Japanese have their keitai and love to play their games on them. Americans...not so much. But I've always thought that the iPhone/Touch were the closest analog to the Japanese cell phone gaming market.

In a perfect world, I'd love to see a fully-voiced VN that a person could play on their iPhone for a few minutes, come home at the end of the day, sync it up to iTunes, and then launch a PC/Mac counterpart and then continue playing the game from where they left off.

Am I alone in these thoughts or does everyone go through this at some stage in making their games? If so, how do you power through it?

I'm pretty sure everyone gets into that funk from time-to-time.

I've not worked on VNs before. Though I have worked on relatively large projects in the past. And what usually does it for me is changing focus. Writing hitting a wall? Take some time off and focus on character design. Audio got you down? Change gears and work on some coding.

Of course - that only works for so long before all the other little facets are completed. Er...it also assumes one is a jack-of-all-trades and has other facets to work on. And while I don't want to be a downer, sometimes some projects never get "birthed". I'm a firm believer in cutting a project loose if it becomes a boondoggle.

That being said, I am immensely looking forward to this project. Heck, I'm gonna go and make sure I have a enough free space on my Touch right now.

[Vatina]

(Didn't notice the top post here before now.)

Nooo, go dstarsboy, you can do it!
*cheers you on*

[dstarsboy]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Oct 1 still looks like a reality. I'm trying everything I can (adderall? lol) to hit that date.

There's this weird concept I'd like to try for the free version that I'd like some feedback on.

The structure of my game doesn't lend itself to making a shorter version of the story so, instead, I'm thinking of releasing 3 free apps that mainly consist of you (as the College Headmaster) interviewing each of the girls for admittance. It will be sort of a game unto itself as you'll be trying to achieve some goals with your interview questions (such as, find out if they'll get good grades, find out if they ever cheated, find out if they will vandalize anything, find out if they're big sluts, lol). So these will be really short games that give you the feeling of the choice system, the writing style, the art, etc.

Also, in the main game, you have make a "grand gesture" of sorts to win the girl and the interview games can give you clues and insight into how the girls think that will help you make that choice.

In the iPhone world, the free app is essentially your best/only tool for advertising your game, do you think this will work?

[~Julia~]

About your idea for the "lite" or free app:

Awesome idea! It's not only unique it is also very intuitive, both a sample of the game and a guide of sorts, I say go with it! I have an iPod touch, so I'll be looking forward to this! Maybe when my game's complete I'll come ask you for some tips about turning it into an app aswell, it's a nice market potential.

Good luck, hope you hit your planned release date!

[Voight-Kampff]

In the iPhone world, the free app is essentially your best/only tool for advertising your game, do you think this will work?

That's an interesting idea.

The only thing that I'd be concerned about with these specially-crafted free versions is: How much effort and resources will it take away from the "real" game? If the answer is none, or minimal, then I don't see a problem. If the answer is something other than that? Well...

The other thing I wonder about the App Store is, now-a-days, it seems like Apps can easily get lost in a sea of crap. It's good to be in the App Store. But if you want to make money, I think interest has to be drummed up from other locations as well. Buy some ad space on ANN. Send a "press release" to Kotaku, to iLounge, etc.

[dstarsboy]

The only thing that I'd be concerned about with these specially-crafted free versions is: How much effort and resources will it take away from the "real" game? If the answer is none, or minimal, then I don't see a problem. If the answer is something other than that?

I expect all 3 lite versions (one for each girl) to take roughly a month and a half to complete. The reason I want to do 3 is because the audio/image files are so large and it's a huge boost if you can keep your app under 10MB (over 10MB requires wi-fi on iPhone). Obviously my main game will be quite large but at least the free versions can be downloaded easily. These can be developed after the release of the game so it will not cause any delays.

The other thing I wonder about the App Store is, now-a-days, it seems like Apps can easily get lost in a sea of crap. It's good to be in the App Store. But if you want to make money, I think interest has to be drummed up from other locations as well. Buy some ad space on ANN. Send a "press release" to Kotaku, to iLounge, etc.

I actually released a silly kid's game called Drop Wiz that didn't register a single download in the first few months, lol, so trust me, I know what you mean! These are some amazing ideas but, quite honestly, I'm one guy working on this in his spare time as a hobby. I am primarily doing this because I'm interested in the technical side. I'll be the first one to tell you that I don't think I'm a very good writer/colorer/game designer. In the iPhone market, you can pay $0.99 and get an incredible 3D game from a professional game studio, so no matter how great of a game mine is, it would seem like crap comparatively, so I'd rather fly under the radar. I would be too embarrassed to advertise this anywhere other than here. But it's great that you brought that up because...

Maybe when my game's complete I'll come ask you for some tips about turning it into an app aswell, it's a nice market potential.

... I'd LOVE to eventually work with people like Julia to port their great VNs into iPhone releases! (thanks for the feedback, btw!) I would have no problem submitting press releases or buying ad squares for these gems.

For community sake, I'll be more than happy to post weekly sales figures of the free and main apps here so everyone can make their own judgments on whether or not they want to enter the iPhone VN market.

[Voight-Kampff]

In the iPhone market, you can pay $0.99 and get an incredible 3D game from a professional game studio, so no matter how great of a game mine is, it would seem like crap comparatively, so I'd rather fly under the radar.

Yeah, that is a problem. It's also one of the reasons why I thought getting in on the ground floor of the App Store, when the SDK was originally announced, would have had the most impact - To get in before the tsunami of crap. But, timing is everything, it seems.

I know I've urged Py'Tom to make an iPod-capable version of Ren'Py - or as I like to call it: Py'Pod! But if that's on his radar, it's way down the road.

I would be too embarrassed to advertise this anywhere other than here.

Oh mercy! I know exactly how you feel. Some days I curse the fact that I'm a jack-of-all-trades, and a master of none.

... I'd LOVE to eventually work with people like Julia to port their great VNs into iPhone releases!

Well I'm certainly intrigued.

I'm sure this is still a ways off, but do you suspect that it would be easier to port games made in something like Ren'Py? Or would it be better to build functions and such from scratch?

BTW, dstarsboy - I often find myself transfixed for minutes-on-end with your avatar. There's something strangely satisfying about seeing pikachu endlessly bitch-slapping pikachu.

[dstarsboy]

LOL, thanks, I find the Pikachu slapping a little hypnotic too.

So do you do iPhone development as well?

Since I know nothing about how Ren'Py works, it may be a while before a direct port is even remotely possible. Also, from what I've seen from most Ren'Py games... PyTom's engine is WAYYYYY more advanced than anything you can easily do on the iPhone.

Here's a screenshot of the iPhone VN input app I built using Core Data. You just set up every scene in it and you can test play your game by going through the options. This basically writes "how your game will look/sound/play" to an SQLite database and I just drag and drop it into my iPhone app and (as long as the images/sounds exist) it plays it. Should be easy to make additional games if VNs ever did get popular on the iPhone.

[jack_norton]

That's a cool system you built. When I'll have time/will to build my one will probably use plain text file input though, not SQL. I managed to have python running on iphone but a straight renpy port looks like a task of several months (if not more).

[Kittylove]

Are you thinking about making Second Semester available for people who have computers too? I'm interested in playing it, but I don't own an iphone

[Voight-Kampff]

So do you do iPhone development as well?

Afraid not. It intrigues me, but I'm no programmer.

Here's a screenshot of the iPhone VN input app I built using Core Data. You just set up every scene in it and you can test play your game by going through the options. This basically writes "how your game will look/sound/play" to an SQLite database and I just drag and drop it into my iPhone app and (as long as the images/sounds exist) it plays it. Should be easy to make additional games if VNs ever did get popular on the iPhone.

That's interesting. Although, based on your description of what it does, my immediate questions are in relation to "special effects". Does this allow, for example, the scrolling of BG images? Can you move sprites around? Can you integrate animation? Does it allow transition effects, like cross fading, etc.?

[dstarsboy]

That's a cool system you built. When I'll have time/will to build my one will probably use plain text file input though, not SQL. I managed to have python running on iphone but a straight renpy port looks like a task of several months (if not more).

I heard that python was now workable on the iPhone, that will save you tons of heart ache with Objective C. I can't wait to see how that progresses. Good luck.

Are you thinking about making Second Semester available for people who have computers too? I'm interested in playing it, but I don't own an iphone

Well, all of my sprites and everything was created for th iPhone screen so they're pretty small and may look crummy blown up but I am very interested in messing around with Ren'Py when I get some free time, so I think you could get a chance to play it in the future.

That's interesting. Although, based on your description of what it does, my immediate questions are in relation to "special effects". Does this allow, for example, the scrolling of BG images? Can you move sprites around? Can you integrate animation? Does it allow transition effects, like cross fading, etc.?

I have some things like fading in/out, sprites moving in from left, leaving from right and I use the "pre_event" and "post_event" tags to handle them. It's flexible enough that you can add any command you want... as long as you write the code later that basically says "if the pre_event = scroll_background then blah". However, if you want to make a map or something with touchable go points... it wont handle anything like that. I wont have anything too flashy in this game though.

[dstarsboy]

Quick update. Rewriting some story elements and making some plot changes. I expect this to be pushed back to November 1st now.

I haven't given up on this.