WIP - Planet Stronghold, a light-RPG in space

[jack_norton]

This isn't to say you're wrong, just that it can be done. OTOH I think several of the big hentai RPGs either integrate all romances into a single story or have the only "decision" be really near the end so you don't have to backtrack that much to get it all.

yes, that's what I'm thinking to do in the game. At a certain point, like 1-2 chapters before the end, you can save (the game will alert you) and then reload from that point to get all possible endings. Of course if you play as male, you cannot see the female endings though, for that you have to restart

[Aleema]

Why are the new guy characters so blah looking? All the girls look hot and young. So ... disappoint ... argh ...
Well, the bald guy looks a little cool, though. I'd like to know about him. But what happened to everyone on spaceships looking like Hollywood celebrities/professional athletes!? Only the chicks now? I don't think this is truly sci-fi without an unending supply of glistening space abs! (And of course, alien sex.) xD I mean, Bellamy wouldn't last 2 days on a space mission, let alone pass space boot camp to earn that space uniform! I am being very shallow right now but just let me vent! Jaaaaaaaack! Okay, done.

[jack_norton]

Woot, because you didn't see a screenshot of the prince yet! Well I thought Tom was cool to date? maybe a bit too scary indeed. Alien sex might be an idea
Anyway, you can still play with the male character and date girls

[Aleema]

Woot, because you didn't see a screenshot of the prince yet! Well I thought Tom was cool to date? maybe a bit too scary indeed. Alien sex might be an idea

Yeah, Tom looks nice. Even if he's got scared-looking eyes like he's constantly doing this expression: O_O
But, yeah, out of the 4-5 you have, he's the best candidate. But even though only 2 of your girls are dateable, I bet that didn't stop you from making the 3rd a total babe as well. It's called eye candy and people are willing to pay big bucks for it. =P

But talk of a ... "prince"? A SPACE PRINCE? That does intrigue me.

Anyway, you can still play with the male character and date girls

That's a less enticing thought than you think, but thanks for trying. xP
Cool gals, though.

[jack_norton]

I know, but I'm a bit scared because you know... the game is sci-fi! And I fear the same as Vera might happen ("what the art is not manga! then I won't even try the game" etc).
Here's the prince Cliff:

cliff.jpg (58.48 KiB) Viewed 1522 times

not bad, eh? A pity he's gay!

Anyway, I've decided to remove Jacob as dateable and add another character, a rebel leader that I'm SURE girls (or boys if they have that inclination lol) will like it

On a unrelated note, talking with some girls like my artist and anime fans, I discovered that they like to play as men if they can have yaoi endings (male-male).

[Aleema]

On a unrelated note, talking with some girls like my artist and anime fans, I discovered that they like to play as men if they can have yaoi endings (male-male).

Yes, some girls love a good gay couple, if they're both really attractive men. Like some guys like to plays as girls if they can date a hot girl and imagine them making out, etc. lol

Rebel leader sounds awesome. Rogues have been and always will = hot.

cliff.jpg

not bad, eh? A pity he's gay!

Damn it! They're always gay or taken!
Side note: Jacob would have been an interesting romance, but if it came down to cutting it for time/money, then okay.

I know, but I'm a bit scared because you know... the game is sci-fi! And I fear the same as Vera might happen ("what the art is not manga! then I won't even try the game" etc).

News flash: girls wet themselves after seeing the new Star Trek movie (and wrote endless fanfics about KirkxSpock. -_-) Genre really doesn't matter when there's hot people. =P You'll find a fanbase for girls, YES. You just gotta realize what you're doing to push them away: ugly guy sprites, girl fanservice shoved down their throat, etc. If you're stuck thinking no girls will play your game, then you'll wind up designing a game that makes that true. I'm not saying you need to change anything with your game now, just ... a heads up for your next gender-curious game. Look at Dragon Age: two male LIs, two female LIs, three possible romances for either a male or female MC (unless I'm miscounting). And I can almost guarantee the playerbase was as close to equally male/female as it's going to get. Shame it wasn't treated as such in the long run. No, you know what? Look at Mass Effect! I'm a HUGE fan of that series, foaming at the mouth for the 3rd installment, and I know so many more girls who are, too. Why? Excellent storytelling + custom MC + hot guy romance? That's a recipe for a girl player if I've ever seen one. Plus, we found the aliens hot, too, and that's a little creepy, but I'll admit Thane is my favorite LI from the series. Point is, it was a sci-fi game, and it has a large female fanbase.

I'm not sure where you heard this "it's not manga!" thing from, but there are plenty of games with successful American style GxB romances, typically in the casual games department. That's a "housewives" demographic that actually doesn't prefer foreign art styles. Trust me, not everyone loves the girly Japanese men!! XD

Uh ... rant over. Proceed making your game in peace.

[jack_norton]

Hah, wasn't a rant, was full of useful suggestions. I think you're right, I talked with a good friend of mine (female) and she said she didn't like much Bionic Heart because of what you said. No hot male to date, playing only from male perspective, and fanservice.

With this game I think I should be on track:
- hot males (Tom is, and there will be the rebel leader which will be insanely hot - you'll have to win him in battle to get romance with him)
- 3 romances for each gender (2 straight + 1 homo)
- absolutely zero fanservice (you'll only see naked girls if you get the romance endings as male, but that's to be expected, right?)
- excellent storytelling... well, I'll let people judge this, I'm trying my best
the only thing I'm unsure maybe is the gameplay style, since is turnbased, but not much I can do about this. I also think the general art-style of PS is much more female friendly than BH one: on BH the atmosphere/setting was (volutely) similar to Blade Runner, dark, oppressive. In this game instead is more like Star Wars, with bright colors and the general mood is more funny than serious.

[Jake]

(Personally, I don't particularly find any of the female sprites in Planet Stronghold that attractive, the protagonist is the best-looking one of the lot IMO. I wouldn't suggest that they're equally as unattractive as the male sprites, but that's as much because I'm not a particularly good judge of what teenage girls want in a man as anything. But then, I find the fanservice in stuff like Vera Blanc pretty off-putting myself, the constant cavorting-around-in-her-underwear pretty much totally killed her character for me - which is a shame, 'cause other than that it was the most interesting game in the lineup, to me.)

I'm not sure where you heard this "it's not manga!" thing from, but there are plenty of games with successful American style GxB romances, typically in the casual games department. That's a "housewives" demographic that actually doesn't prefer foreign art styles. Trust me, not everyone loves the girly Japanese men!! XD

As to this, though - I suspect it's more a matter of positioning and marketing than anything. The Fiat 500 is a very successful car - it sold out of its first production run in three weeks - but I doubt it would do nearly so well if it was only sold through HumVee dealerships. People go to a HumVee dealership to buy an ugly petrol-swilling behemoth, they're not going to look twice at a tiny little kitschy European thing. So since Jack has written all his VNs prior to Vera Blanc using vaguely-manga-styled sprites, people who don't prefer foreign art styles won't even be looking at his VN line.

[Aleema]

Sounds like you are on the right track! Sorry for ranting before knowing all the facts, but yes, it does sound like an exciting game now that there's more than one token GxB, and even some GxG, BxB, which I did not know before. I'm sure your storytelling will be fine, and yeah, naked girls are fine on the naked girl path. xD

the only thing I'm unsure maybe is the gameplay style, since is turnbased, but not much I can do about this. I also think the general art-style of PS is much more female friendly than BH one: on BH the atmosphere/setting was (volutely) similar to Blade Runner, dark, oppressive. In this game instead is more like Star Wars, with bright colors and the general mood is more funny than serious

Interesting, because I think you're partly right, but probably for more specific reasons than simply "it looked like Blade Runner". A really grim, edgey atmosphere doesn't do too much, perhaps, BUT Serenity Frost is currently writing a GxB game set in a cyberpunk dystopia, and I'd play it in a heartbeat, so it's probably more execution (how much fanservice, gore, politics, sex, etc), and of course, the ever-important hot guy factor. I think you'll find that genre isn't in the "storytelling+good MC+good romances" formula, and if it was, it's as much personal taste as what your favorite food is, so there's no way to please everyone. As far as trying to calculate what genres or setting women/men prefer, you simply can't. It's all about how you treat it and how the respective genders receive it. So I wouldn't get wound up on the setting of your previous games if I were you. You know, in terms of why there was a lack of ___ players, but maybe look closer at the other pieces and parts, like the writing or characters.

(Personally, I don't particularly find any of the female sprites in Planet Stronghold that attractive, the protagonist is the best-looking one of the lot IMO. I wouldn't suggest that they're equally as unattractive as the male sprites, but that's as much because I'm not a particularly good judge of what teenage girls want in a man as anything.)

(Oh, pfft! No one's perfect enough for you, I see. =P)
(Yeah, if at least one of the girls wasn't ridiculously beautiful, I probably wouldn't have complained and have applauded his realism.)
(Talking in parentheses is fun.)

As to this, though - I suspect it's more a matter of positioning and marketing than anything. ... So since Jack has written all his VNs prior to Vera Blanc using vaguely-manga-styled sprites, people who don't prefer foreign art styles won't even be looking at his VN line.

Whaaaaaaaat are you talking about? *hits last sentence* Ah, okay.
Jack's aim is to attract a demographic he has not really struck a chord with before, so there's nothing wrong with suggesting he do something he hasn't done before. If he likes the demographic he has now, by all means, he should keep selling his kitschy cars to his niche market and never bat an eye. If he wants MORE customers, rather than simply different customers,, he'd consider designing a car that appealed to both yuppies and yankees. Rather than stick an American flag on his European car and call it a day. Although I'm not sure this analogy is perfect for the situation, since it implies Jack's games did REALLY damn well to point of not needing to do anything different, ever, based solely on the fact that the had manga-style art.

[jack_norton]

Jake: what, Rebecca isn't attractive!! I agree with you though that Lisa is without doubt the best looking one. I suspect MANY male players will play as Lisa just to get the GxG ending with Michelle (I played DA as female to get the GxG with Morrigan only to find out that she was straight! damn)

And about Vera I really don't think anymore the mistake was *only* the art. The bigger mistake was to make a game that would appeal mainly casual players: traditional VN players wouldn't like it for the art, while casual players are more used to that (and also the mystery/detective setting).
But - and is a big but - casual players HATE reading, and there was definitely too much text in Vera (normal for a VN, but too much for a casual player). Also, casual players are used to pay peanuts for games. I have NEVER got so many complaints about the game price ever (obviously since normal casual games sells for $6.99!).
Next year will do another episode that will have still the same art (without fanservice, or perhaps optional but off by default) but a totally different gameplay and lower price, and I think it will sell much better (at least I hope, nobody can know for sure).

Aleema:
Well some girls are really put off by sci-fi settings, to the point of not even playing the game. I mean, not even download it - just by looking at the screenshots. I have to admit that from the screenshots you clearly see what kind of game BH was, so probably was a mistake on my part in selecting them, not sure.

Anyway this is all just small talk From my 7 years of experience in this field, when making games is really hard to know what will sell and what not, which target market will hit, etc. There are so many cases of games with almost identic setting/plot/anything that get TOTALLY different results. But that's what makes it fun and that's why I think making games is a form of art (similarly to writing, painting, composing music, etc)

[Jake]

Jack's aim is to attract a demographic he has not really struck a chord with before, so there's nothing wrong with suggesting he do something he hasn't done before.

I think you're completely misinterpreting what I said. I'm not suggesting he shouldn't do something different - as I said, Vera Blanc was the title of his I was the most interested in.

I'm answering the question you asked about where this "manga doesn't sell" attitude comes from. Jack's said before that one reason he thinks the Vera Blanc games didn't sell so well was that his audience isn't so receptive to non-manga-styled art; he's not saying that non-manga art can't sell, he's suggesting that people who go to buy a VN (a hummer) aren't interested in something that looks different to what they're expecting (a tank) even if it's just as good at telling a story (driving to the shops).

(In the city I live there's a hire-car service which drives a stretched Humvee; there's a Tsukihime-clone/word-count joke in there somewhere.)

Jake: what, Rebecca isn't attractive!! :shock: I agree with you though that Lisa is without doubt the best looking one. I suspect MANY male players will play as Lisa just to get the GxG ending with Michelle :lol:

In all honesty, Rebecca isn't terrible in most senses, but she still looks like she's missing a couple of vertebrae, and it's pretty hard to look at. :/ She looks aggressive and a bit spiteful, and some combination of pose and size makes it look like she's desperately thrusting her breasts forward constantly, which is a bit off-putting. Michelle looks drugged; Rumi I can only form an opinion on the face, but she's a bit too angled and snake-like for my taste. Personally, I liked what I saw of the earlier artist's sprites more.

Of course, it's all opinion, and I doubt you'll ever find a single image that all guys ever can agree looks attractive. Giving her gigantic tits will help with the lowest-common-denominator, so that's the way a lot of people go, but that puts me off as much as anything.

[jack_norton]

Yes I agree... tastes are tastes after all.
Anyway today got the rebel leader sketch done. I think is good, and got the approval of a bunch of fangirls already!

[Aleema]

H-how much did you say your game was, again? I ... need to save up ... No reason ...

[jack_norton]

Mouhaha <evil grin> That's what I wanted to hear!

[jack_norton]

(lazy copy/paste from my forums because have no time)

I've uploaded the final build of the Alpha 0.7, it now behaves like a demo, but the "full" game plays the story up to chapter four. This means that I also opened the game alpha pre-orders! For more details check this page: http://www.planetstronghold.com/order_scifi_rpg.htm
In practice, if you want to help make this game better and think it's already worth $9.99, please buy it (you'll get all future updates until the "final" version for free, and save lot of money on the final price).

Download links:
http://www.didone.com/testing/PSAlpha07.exe (Pc)
http://www.didone.com/testing/PSAlpha07.zip (Mac)
http://www.didone.com/testing/PSAlpha07.tar.bz2 (Linux)