[WIP] Errant Heart

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Jake
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Re: [WIP] Errant Heart - Now with demo! For a limited time!

#31 Post by Jake »

Voight-Kampff wrote: Well, as I mentioned earlier, the whole point of the ADV sequence after the hook was to provide a clear illustration to the reader of what Lira's unguarded state is like - so as to provide a contrast once she arrives in the big city. It seems I'll have to rethink the format and length of that demonstration.
As it goes, I do agree that the "interesting -> mundane -> reminder of interesting thing" beginning is a decent way of maintaining interest; it's just that the reminder should (to my mind) come just as the audience is lulled into a sense of security in the mundane, not thousands of words after that point. The problem is that the mundane is... well, mundane, and thus not especially interesting. ;-)

I don't know whether it's been an influence on your writing, but it's a bad habit that a lot of writers fall into to presume that "longer" automatically equals "better" or "more interesting". One common practice when editing is to go through your script and - a scene at a time - work out what that scene adds to the story that no other scene already does, that's important to the reader's understanding of the story. If you can't find anything - if it's just a fluff scene - then cut it. After that, you can go through the writing in the scenes you have remaining and use the unique thing that scene portrays as a razor to decide whether particular sections of the scene are necessary or just padding. Not to suggest you absolutely need to strip the writing down to the very bare bones - throwaway dialogue can also be revealing of character - but it's worth trimming the fat to keep the reader engaged.


(As to keeping the reader cognizant of the surrounds - remember that you have audio and visual to do that for you, as well. There's not so much point narrating stuff that the reader can already see or hear for themselves.)
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Re: [WIP] Errant Heart - Now with demo! For a limited time!

#32 Post by papillon »

I know this isn't at full proofreading yet but I can't resist - beet-red. not beat, unless there's something very wrong in their relationship. :)

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Re: [WIP] Errant Heart - Now with demo! For a limited time!

#33 Post by Voight-Kampff »

Jake wrote:I don't know whether it's been an influence on your writing, but it's a bad habit that a lot of writers fall into to presume that "longer" automatically equals "better" or "more interesting".
:lol: Unfortunately, I believe that is exactly what has happened here. As I had eluded to earlier, Type-Moon titles are a particular influence on my writing style - at least in regards to VNs. And one thing that Nasu does is write endless amounts of detail. In fact, I consider one of his characters from FSN (Kirei) to be one of the most evil villains I've ever come across, due primarily to his desire to inflict pain via long-winded speeches. I had sworn not to fall into that trap. But it seems while keeping my eye on one trap, I fell into another...Cursed single-mindedness!

Well, regardless, your insight has proven particularly helpful. I had been trying in vein to find inspiration to continue writing. But rather than plodding forward, you've provided some inspiration to go back and pair down the detail and tighten up the timeline. You're quite right about chopping out details that don't serve any purpose, or merely repeat something that has already been addressed.
Jake wrote:(As to keeping the reader cognizant of the surrounds - remember that you have audio and visual to do that for you, as well. There's not so much point narrating stuff that the reader can already see or hear for themselves.)
True. I suppose not having any visuals or audio to work with when writing began, I felt the need to impart all that detail in the text. Now that art is starting to come in, it'll become more evident what detail needs to remain and what can be cut.

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Re: [WIP] Errant Heart - Now with demo! For a limited time!

#34 Post by chronoluminaire »

Voight-Kampff wrote:Honestly, I've never given text speed much thought.
Heh. I bet you will after this incident :P
Voight-Kampff wrote:Typically, no matter the speed, I default to hitting the enter key to reveal the whole block of text and then read on from there. But obviously the menu issue has to be resolved for other reasons as well.
So it sounds like you prefer to play with text speed maximum. (Which is the same as you describe but without needing the second keypress. Hint: letting people read with half the number of keypresses is good.) In which case, I'd suggest you just set the default text speed to maximum. Or if you're really tied to having the slow-text-reveal for some reason, one step short of maximum.

Generally, you want your user interface to minimise annoyance for as many people as possible: and more people-who-read-quickly will be irritated by slow text than people-who-read-slowly will be irritated by fast text.

I'm holding off playing the demo until the text-speed issue is fixed, because I get more irritated by slow text than most people, and the vestiges of the RSI I had a few years back mean I dislike pressing Enter lots. But the graphics look high enough quality that I'm going to keep following this thread, at least.
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Re: [WIP] Errant Heart - Now with demo! For a limited time!

#35 Post by Voight-Kampff »

chronoluminaire wrote:Heh. I bet you will after this incident :P
Indeed.
chronoluminaire wrote:I'm holding off playing the demo until the text-speed issue is fixed, because I get more irritated by slow text than most people, and the vestiges of the RSI I had a few years back mean I dislike pressing Enter lots. But the graphics look high enough quality that I'm going to keep following this thread, at least.
Ah. Well, it will probably be a while. I intend to remove this version of the demo tomorrow (so anyone else who wants to play this version and hasn't d/led it, better do so quickly).

Ideally, what I'd like to do is to rework the first couple of scenes and present a shorter, but more complete experience - including working, customized menus. I honestly don't know how long that's going to take, though.

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Re: [WIP] Errant Heart - Now with demo! For a limited time!

#36 Post by @berration »

I do want to thank everybody for the feedback. It's pretty much exactly what we were looking for: A little bit of input early on, so that we have an idea of whether or not we're going in the right direction, or if there are some potential problems that should be addressed before it becomes too difficult to do so.

Now then, as for some of the issues that are my responsibilities...
mysterialize wrote:What did strike me as odd however, was your placement and movement of the character sprites on the screen.
One of my visual novel pet peeves is when scale and perspective are disregarded to the point where characters look like they're toppling over, or are standing holes in order to be positioned next to characters who are obviously shorter than them. I was hoping to address that in EH by taking special care with the backgrounds and creating a series of ATL transforms for positioning characters at different distances from the screen.

Heh...of course, this little demo is my first attempt at actually using the system, so I really haven't gotten the hang of just where, when or how it should be used, and it's likely that, in the process of trying it out, I managed to overuse it.

I will say that one of the reasons it probably doesn't look right is because of the backgrounds: There are mostly placeholder filtered photographs in there right now, and I'm sure none of them are even close to being in the proper perspective. Without the right depth cues, characters won't look like they're moving towards or away from the camera (I also think some carefully-placed background zooms could help in certain situations).

As for centering the characters...again, I probably got carried away. However, I felt composition-wise it's a bit boring to always have characters centered in the screen (and I can't say that I often stand face-to-face with anyone during a real life conversation), so I was hoping to shake things up a bit, so that every scene featuring a conversation with one character wouldn't look exactly like every other scene with that character.

Like everything else, though, it's probably something that should be used more sparingly.
chronoluminaire wrote:I'm holding off playing the demo until the text-speed issue is fixed, because I get more irritated by slow text than most people, and the vestiges of the RSI I had a few years back mean I dislike pressing Enter lots. But the graphics look high enough quality that I'm going to keep following this thread, at least.
It's really a shame the Preferences menu didn't work. While it wasn't finished, I did think it was rather cool...
preferences.jpg
The hieroglyphics in the background scrolled, 'n' everything! :)

And I would have liked for people to be able to adjust the text settings to their liking. I know everyone has their own...er...preferences, so it's a shame to have to endure the demo at a slow text rate.

And, suffering through an RSI myself, I had to cringe when VK mentioned hitting Enter twice for every line. Ouch! Personally, I've taken to using a moderate text speed coupled with auto-forward. I only want to click a button in the rare instance that I want to re-read something, or need to pause it. Working and taking care of my duties on this project strain my fingers enough as it is. I don't really want to be clicking buttons non-stop while reading VNs as well.
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Re: [WIP] Errant Heart - Now without demo!

#37 Post by Voight-Kampff »

Alright.

A revised version of the demo is nearing completion. It went a bit faster than expected, in fact. That's primarily because this demo ends much sooner than the previous one. The idea being: to release a series of shorter, "bite-sized" demos (in chronological order) which LSF can evaluate.

However, rather than bombard the general community with minor demo after demo (seriously - there's a lot of material here), I'd like to create a private forum on LSF. Assuming there's enough interest, PyTom has already agreed to create such a forum.

So, if you're interested in becoming a more-or-less dedicate tester for Errant Heart, please send me a PM. If there are enough interested parties, I'll pass the names along to PyTom and then we can get started.

Of course, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

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Re: [WIP] Errant Heart - Now without demo!

#38 Post by Voight-Kampff »

Oh, and FYI - anyone who wants to partake of this closed testing will have our acclaim and gratitude forever.

Well, that and an acknowledgement in the credits.

Although, I'll be honest: after two days, no one has come forward. So, I have my doubts that we'll be able to take this step.

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Re: [WIP] Errant Heart - In need of testers. I'm not kidding

#39 Post by Voight-Kampff »

Okay, the revised demo is complete. And we've got our list of testers. Thanks to all who volunteered.

Just waiting to hear back from PyTom in regards to actually creating the private forum. I'll let you know once that happens.

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Re: [WIP] Errant Heart - In need of testers. I'm not kidding

#40 Post by Voight-Kampff »

Private forum has been added. Everyone who volunteered has been added, and should be able to see the forum now at the bottom of LSF. If you have any problems, or can't see it, just let me know.

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