The Aces - GxB vn in progress

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Aleema
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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#16 Post by Aleema » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:57 pm

serenity-blue wrote:Ooo, this is a nifty idea. If you need help with sound effects I'm your girl. I'm already doing the recording and research for Love GET so I'll happily look around for you too. Just give me a list of what all you need. (Doesn't have to be all at once.) I've got a huge selection of good royalty free SFX to pick from plus I can record my own with good quality. (I'm also a good voice actress if you find you have need for that sort of thing.)

I also know a lot of places you can get some good music too, but that's just if you can't find someone to make some for you.
:3 Are you, by chance, an avid fandub producer?


In regards to the thread-- I love the designs of the guys. :D There needs to be more fantasy/"magical" otome games. I like the idea of them being themed after cards.

And a card battle system!? .... I might be able to help. Now, are you talking, a 42-card deck game, or something like Yu-Gi-Oh?

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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#17 Post by sheetcakeghost » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:02 pm

Fandub, no. I do write on a cartoon though. It's just that I've found myself in a lot of creative situations where I needed sound effects so I just accumulated this collection, go figure.

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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#18 Post by CaesMRaenes » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:02 pm

@Tejan:
Numerical values for cards would be a lot better to work with so I suppose that would be a wise choice there. I'm still skeptical about using aces in the deck too, but I'll keep that on the sideline of ideas. And, ah, thanks for mentioning about those numerical variables that we were talking about in Love GET. I didn't think of utilizing them and separating battles according to branches so that was a wonderful suggestion, Tejan! <3

I'll take a look at that tutorial you mentioned. I must've missed it somehow. :D

@serenity-blue:
Haha! You're cool too. Cool as ice! *shot* I suppose I got ahead of myself when I posted in the thread. I thought the guys were attainable on one path with many branches, but the numerical count of the variables would determine which ending the main character would get. XD I totally didn't expected that the MC would be on one path and the values were aimed toward an ending of one guy instead of a group.

Well, enough off-topicing, I'll definitely keep you in mind with sound effects. I totally can't do stuff like that on my own and me searching is like putting me in the middle of the city. D: I can't find my way anywhere without signs. "The Aces" isn't going to be voice-acted anytime soon but it would be cool in the future, right? :P

@Aleema:
You! I know you! :D Rock Robin girl, wazzup?

Haha! Well, anyways, the battle system is planned to be done using the standard card deck (Kings, Queens, Jacks, etc.) but without the face cards. So would that be 42? *not doing her math* The system isn't fleshed out yet but that's the gist of it so far. I've posted some details that I'm considering and debating about of the system so far in an earlier post. But here's just the points down for ya:
In a player vs. monster situation:
1. What would determine who start first?
2. The difference would create the damage counter, but should it be by turn or by luck of hand?
3. Should the battle be with luck?
4. Restricting the deck to one Ace to create a form of "special attack" would be cool, but would a variable like that be able to be implemented into the system?
5. Etc.
More detail in that post earlier. Thanks a bunch, Aleema, for offering your help too. Hopefully, this system won't be anything too out of hand but it would be cool to see it work and playable. I'll get back to you when it gets fleshed out more. <3

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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#19 Post by Aleema » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:25 pm

*facepalm* I don't know how I missed that, I guess I thought the post was specific to Tejan or something. =P

I mentioned Yu-Gi-Oh, because I built a little card battle game in Ren'Py before. And, to be honest, it was a lot like "war". Where you just played a number from your hand, hoping it would be larger than whatever your opponent played. Not exactly like the real game, but hey, I just coded it because I was bored.

Your idea for the system is rather simple, and I'm taking it as a challenge, so I would love to talk about what you're thinking about further. Like: does each player get hand of cards to choose from or do you just draw the top card of a deck (like War)? In which case, the amount of cards is split between the two battlers (rather than a whole deck per person)? The battle will most certainly be with luck, as I don't see a good way to strategize sequential numbers, if you always want the highest one. The "Ace" card would add a unique element, in that you could choose to play the trump card (but whether it was useful or not is still luck). Maybe you can collect Ace cards depending on whether you have high enough relationship with their corresponding chars?

From what you have so far, it seems the battles will be purely chance, so losing a game shouldn't have grave consequences. Ways that you could make it more interesting/strategic is throwing in Joker cards, that do something special, I dunno? Card games that you could look at for inspiration are FF8's Triple Triad (and, I guess, FF9's card system, too) and Pazaak from Knights of the Old Republic. They were mini-games for larger stories, so they'd be easier to code. Pazaak was actually more like Blackjack. I was addicted to Triple Triad for a while, which was a strategy game that used "is this card's points higher?" like War, but in directions. Maybe a battlefield can come into play, and where you place you cards is important? Or maybe, all of the suits trump each other (like rock, paper, scissors) and that comes into play? I dunno. I'm trying! xD

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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#20 Post by Tejan » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:51 pm

Here's the tutorial, there isn't much too it, but I figure you can get something from it.
http://www.renpy.org/wiki/renpy/doc/coo ... s_optional

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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#21 Post by machinist » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:23 am

i like the red guy.. looking forward to this too, hope you finish

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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#22 Post by VenusEclipse » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:32 am

The guys are nicely painted. Those symbols on their faces are really stylish. I really like body art. :D (And I mean I really really like those markings!)
The symbols match their suit. The hearts marking look mighty fierce. I can see the thought put into their design XD.
I can`t believe you`re incorporating a cards into it. There`s something about cards that I really like. Each guy seems really likable, especially in the looks department. I wish you the best of luck, especially with the cards.

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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#23 Post by CaesMRaenes » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:27 am

@Aleema (and anyone for the matter concerning the system):
Oh! Sorry that it confused you a bit. I guess I should correct that post so that other people can read it too. I enjoy the fact that people are assisting me with the system and thank you long time for the ideas.

Continuing on, I didn't know you made a card system for fun. Man, I envy you for that fact. I suppose that experience would help out in the end to determine whether some ideas are possible and whether some aren't. And since I lack the coding experience, a lot of help would be much appreciated. Yeah, I know. I announced an idea that I probably couldn't handle on my own but that's why it was under "tentative".

Onwards, I spoke with my bf over Skype because he's played over 20 hours of Princess Waltz and collaborated to come up with some ideas. Here's what we have so far:
  • - My initial idea was, at the start of a battle, three cards would be present to the player. If the player picks the higher card, they have the initiative of battle.
    - His idea of starting a turn would be based on stats. The participant with the higher agility would have the initiative. Either that or an event triggered the initiative such as a planned surprise attack and what not.
    - He went into more about stats. The higher the agility, more cards could be drawn. The higher strength, increased likeliness of higher card power. The more dex, increased likeliness of drawing the Ace. The more def, decreased damage caused by the opponent.
    - He also thought about the rule of power amongst the suits. Let's say: Clubs > Hearts > Diamonds > Spades > Clubs (Pulled that one right outta the-!)
    - An extra idea: a full house would cause something crazy to happen such as a switch of suits or something.
If you could tell, he liked the idea of stats and incorporating them to make it feel more RPG battle-ish. It's cutting close to what Princess Waltz has but we're going to have to be careful about that.

Now for your comment bits. I'm thinking of giving each character a different deck, even the monsters. Kinda hefty sounding? I know. The reason being is: each monster is not the same as the guy next to him. One's gonna be more powerful than the next so using the same deck would demote the idea of a stronger monster. Unless, that could be done else-wise. The battle will be mostly luck like the idea of "click-place-reveal-conclusion". So if you placed a 5, you won't be able to see the opponent's card until it flips over and shows you that it's a 6. Then damage is dealt.

My bf and I were debating about having a "held" card in the system to use as a skill. Unfortunately, that sorta defeats the idea of the Ace card being random and that's where he turned for the idea of using stats to call upon the Ace cards. Collecting them is definitely an idea such as it being a reward for doing something. We'll have to see about that. I'm also trying to avoid putting in the Joker card because
it conflicts with an element of the story that is one of the endings.
It could be interesting to implement so that
the main character could also have a special attack,
but it's debatable there. And I spoiler tagged those because they could be minor spoilers to the story. The Joker one though, definitely a spoiler.

Oh and don't fret and hurt your brain! Thank you so much for helping me brainstorm, you and everyone who've helped out. I couldn't be more than honored and happy to have such great assistance and people supporting me. And I hope that you will continue to do so because I appreciate it a lot.

@Tejan:
Thanks for looking it up for me. I'll review it and see how to fiddle with it, although it does look fairly simple. Thank goodness for tutorials. Phew!

@mechnist:
Heheh. You like my Ace of Hearts, huh? Good, good. Huhuhuhu~

@VenusRose:
Ah thanks a bunch about commenting about the design of the symbols. They were a bit of a hassle to come up with but I'm glad that you liked them. (Hmm... Maybe, I should do a vector of the symbols for a clearer view. Spades' symbol is at an angle so you don't see the whole deal.)


P.S.
FRIGGIN' GINORMOUS POST! I'm sorry if I hurt somebody's eyes because of this! XD Oh gawd. I'm such a bad girl.

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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#24 Post by Aleema » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:27 am

Okay, so what I got so far is that each player starts of with a number of hit points, and the difference between the two cards is shaven off the loser's hit points. First player to zero loses, correct? If so, maybe there can be "special cards" that are selected before every battle (and told to player), where if you draw that card, or your opponent does, then something good happens, like being healed? Or a special attack? This could shake things up, but again, would be luck.
My initial idea was, at the start of a battle, three cards would be present to the player. If the player picks the higher card, they have the initiative of battle.
Seems overly complicated just to pick who goes first, because it's a 50/50 chance (right?) And if it indeed is like War, no one goes "first", you both go at the same time. Alternatively, you can have both of the battlers just draw one card and compare, or simulate a coin flip (which is randomly computed) or, to steal even more from YuGiOh, incorporate a Rock Paper Scissors thing, rather than more cards.
- He also thought about the rule of power amongst the suits. Let's say: Clubs > Hearts > Diamonds > Spades > Clubs (Pulled that one right outta the-!)
Maybe it could based on how much the guys like each other in the story? Like Clubs hates Hearts, so in the game, it beats his suit. =P
I'm thinking of giving each character a different deck, even the monsters. Kinda hefty sounding? ... Unless, that could be done else-wise.
Like, Monster A would have a 7 of clubs, a 2 of spades, etc, and it would total to something like 10-20 cards? If so, does the MC's deck also have a limit (10-20)? Or will she constantly have a full deck of cards (minus aces, jokers, etc)? I'm asking to get you thinking, so we could nail down the specifics. If you do do the stats idea, then you wouldn't need to give them terribly custom decks, as their stats would determine how well they play.
My bf and I were debating about having a "held" card in the system to use as a skill. Unfortunately, that sorta defeats the idea of the Ace card being random and that's where he turned for the idea of using stats to call upon the Ace cards.
Actually, this is what I assumed you meant about the Aces. Like, you have the ace cards just waiting, and when you use it is important. If you have a full deck of cards, like around 30 or more (still haven't done the math, lol), then throwing an Ace in there would be awesome IF the ace meant instant win. Like, you instantly win the battle. This would make getting it even more special, and can set the player up for some fun stories about getting one on their first turn. This would also support the ace cards being a reward, especially if you got more than 2 guys on your luvluv meter (that means twice as much chance to win!) And to reduce frustration, monsters didn't normally have any aces.

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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#25 Post by Chansel » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:40 am

Wow, this card battle system is becoming more and more interesting. Looking forward to seeing what it'll be in the end.
He also thought about the rule of power amongst the suits. Let's say: Clubs > Hearts > Diamonds > Spades > Clubs (Pulled that one right outta the-!)
---
My initial idea was, at the start of a battle, three cards would be present to the player. If the player picks the higher card, they have the initiative of battle.
- His idea of starting a turn would be based on stats. The participant with the higher agility would have the initiative. Either that or an event triggered the initiative such as a planned surprise attack and what not.
How about using all of these? When reading this, it made me think of this game my friends and I often play which involves a Trump Suit (probably not the right translation, but let's just use the term for now).
So, you're stats determine who starts the game. That person (or monster) draws three cards from his or her deck. Then, from those three cards, he or she picks a Trump Suit that always wins over the other suits, even if it's a lower number.
Example:
You get to start the game and you draw Clubs 5/6 and Spades 10.
You decide to make Clubs the Trump Suit.
Then, you play your Clubs 5. The enemy plays his Hearts 10. Since you played the Trump Suit, you win that round. If the enemy played Clubs 10, you both played the Trump Suit, so the higher one wins (the enemy, in this case).
If neither one of you plays a Trump Suit, the higher one still wins.

As for the Aces, are you sure you want to put them in the decks? It might be an idea to just have them lying next to the deck to play whenever you want as a special card. Then you can give them special abilities.
Say, when you play the Ace of Hearts, your HP goes up by 5.
Spades does 5 damage to your opponent.
Clubs let's you draw 3 additional cards.
And Diamonds makes your opponent discard 3 cards.
Since they are so powerful, you can only use them once each battle. Or maybe once every two battles or so. Anyway, it may give the player the idea that she controls the battle more and add some strategically depth (or so the player would think ;P). Since you still need to draw good cards, however, luck will still play a big part. But using the Aces whenever you want might balance things out a bit.

Now, I may have completely misunderstood what you want in your cardgame. In that case, never mind the ideas. But who knows, it might spark your interest or give you new ideas ;)
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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#26 Post by CaesMRaenes » Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:03 pm

@Aleema (and anyone concerning the system):
Yeah, you're right. I should really start thinking more seriously into this if I'm hoping for it to function in any distinct way. Well, to start, healing cards would be an efficient idea. I thought about taking a little from PW since their characters are set to automatically heal at the end of the day. A game like ours couldn't do that since it's more luck while theirs is more strategic, even though you never see the opponent's cards.
Aleema wrote:And if it indeed is like War, no one goes "first", you both go at the same time.
See, this is why it's a good thing I have others to look at the ideas. Some are far-fetched while others are just straying too far off. From all the brainstorming, I must've started to lose my original idea but yes, we'll go with this one where both go at the same time. That would mean that turns using this idea would be both sides playing cards then concluding with damage for that round.
Aleema wrote:Maybe it could based on how much the guys like each other in the story? Like Clubs hates Hearts, so in the game, it beats his suit. =P
It could be. If we put it in that manner, it'll be like this: Spades > Clubs > Hearts > Diamonds > Spades. Spades hates Clubs while Clubs is decent with people. Hearts is everyone's best friend but fathers Diamonds. And Diamonds isn't fond of Spades.
Aleema wrote:If you do do the stats idea, then you wouldn't need to give them terribly custom decks, as their stats would determine how well they play.
I like your suggestion here since it sounds more efficient than individually customizing the decks (the MC would then be the only deck I need to change up a bit). If we go with stats, we're going to need a status screen with some form of leveling up or some way of gaining experience. From battle alone, there's exp. for defeating the monster and exp. for beating the monster within a turn requirement. Also, we'll need stats for both the Ace and the MC so that the player could keep track of who their highest romance is. Would that show too much though in regards to endings? That would only show what their potential Ace at the end is but not any of the endings.
Aleema wrote:f you have a full deck of cards, like around 30 or more (still haven't done the math, lol), then throwing an Ace in there would be awesome IF the ace meant instant win. Like, you instantly win the battle. This would make getting it even more special, and can set the player up for some fun stories about getting one on their first turn.
Haha! I like the way you think. It does sound fun if an Ace was an instant win. It would definitely be a story to tell if you won on the first try of any monster. For the MC though and maybe for the only reason why hers must be custom, instead of an Ace, it would be the Joker. Either way, I also want to draw a CG of them doing a special attack with some code to make the camera view move without me having to draw a bunch of whatnots. Could that be incorporated into battle?

Other things to pick on…
- Healing cards: should they be random or be held? If held, they'll have to be obtainable in some manner or form and there has to be a limit like up to 5 cards.
- In battle, at any given time can two cards be played; one from each player. The resulting difference is subtracted from the person with the lowest number.
- Only three cards can be drawn at a time. If your agility goes higher than a certain point though, you get to draw 4. 5, if the stat is maxed out. If your strength goes higher than a certain point, you draw 2. 1, if the stat is maxed out.
- Your dex determines your likeliness to draw a higher numbered card/Ace. I don't know how you would code that though.


@Chansel (about the system):
Thanks for the input. That is one thing that almost slipped past me: how to utilize the rule of power amongst the suits. I don't know how Trump Suit is played but I do like the idea of giving the participant a hand in combat by allowing the suits to beat each other in a way. So instead of the instant win idea you have here, Chansel, it'll probably be more accurate to just give the person with the dominant suit something like an extra 5 damage with their card. So if one person has Spades 2 and the other has Club 7, the one with the Spades would win that turn because it was the dominant one. (I changed up the rule of power. Check above.)

As for the Aces, I think that's where we're stuck on: how to use the Ace to turn the tides of battle and how far should we turn it? Your idea creates a bit of a harder gameplay but it seems real. And I do also like it since each Ace would have a purpose in helping to turn the tide. Hmm… I'm gonna need to think about the usage of the Aces in battle more.

If I missed something, that's because I've been stalking the maintenance guy on and off. Haha! And no, it's because my dad told me to.

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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#27 Post by sheetcakeghost » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:22 pm

I've never really gotten a lot out of battle cards in my romance games. Will there be an option to not play them?

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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#28 Post by Cain0425 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:21 pm

looks fun can wait to play it and nice art work :)

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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#29 Post by Showsni » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:55 pm

I guess when making a card battling system you have two options; either to use a standard deck of cards, or to make up your own cards. Though, with the current theme of Aces it seems like a standard deck would be the best way to go.

How about something like this?

At the start of each turn, you draw five cards from the deck. You then assign three of those cards to be your stats; let's say, you pick one to be your Attack, one for Defence and one for Special. The other two cards are discarded. Meanwhile the monster does the same. You then reveal your cards at the same time; you lose HP equal to the monster's Attack card value minus your Defence value, they lose HP equal to your Attack card's value minus their Defence. The special cards then have additional effects, which are written on the card; these could be a range of things, from regaining HP, switching the monster's Attack and Defence cards around, drawing better cards next turn, making the enemy draw worse cards next turn, and so on. You could then have an element of collecting cards to build your deck, trying to get ones with better special effects. You could have a deck building tension between better cards special wise and attack wise; say, maybe a 2 has a good special effect. Then the Aces would give the highest Attack and Defence, and also have unique special abilities...

You could of course still keep some form of Rock-Paper-Scissors if you likes, by say having the Attack card deal double damage if the Defence card is the kind it's strong against. (And maybe some of the special effects could negate the change, or switch which is better...)

Then you could give some monsters specific decks, like an all Hearts deck or something, so if you knew what was coming you could build you deck to have the value that's strong against Hearts. You could even programme several kinds of monster AI; like, one monster will always put his highest card in Defence, whilst a different one will always put his highest in Attack.

Well, just some ideas... I think programming all that should be possible in Ren'Py.

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Re: The Aces - GxB vn in progress

#30 Post by Starling » Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:12 am

I love this idea. *Following everyone helping you come up with ideas* The boys are cute and I like the added depth of the card games (I also used to be a 'War' fiend.. I swear you not in High School I played with my best friends every lunch period *laaameeelol*)

Good luck to sorting it out to exactly what you want :D
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