First person writing

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dott.Piergiorgio
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Re: First person writing

#31 Post by dott.Piergiorgio » Sun May 09, 2010 9:07 pm

meh.... let's simplify everything placing Caius Julius Caesar as PC and the first/third person issue is solved ;)

(OK, I'm in good mood, I admit....)

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Re: First person writing

#32 Post by FeatherThief » Tue May 11, 2010 12:18 am

PErsonally I only play Visual Novels in first person because when you get so attached to a character you want to be ther person interacting directly with them not someone telling you what you do. Visual novels as Wintermoon said are something inbetween novels and video games but more then just between they are also there own form, in the same genre as manga and anime. They alow sight gags and have things that you can see but (at least for for manga and visual novels) have something you can read but also have (for anime and visual novels) something that you can watch move. Also unlike just pictures these can desplay many more things, not that art can't but imagine if you could see and hear what the artist was thinking when he was doing art. In art you can only see but in visual novels and manga you can see and read. That is why I think these are the perfect form of art and literature.
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Re: First person writing

#33 Post by chirale » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:38 pm

Does anyone have any tips for writing in first person?
Go to the library and look for some books about creative writing.

I'm reading the old Characters and Viewpoint by Orson Scott Card (precisely a version translated in my language), and I find it stimulating. It contains tips both for 1st person and 3rd person writing, with a lot of positive and negative examples.

Since Visual novels are generally based heavily on dialogues, I found anoher book that completes the other, titled Dialogue (by Lewis Turco). As I know, English speakings could find a thriving literature on creative writing, and surely they can find more up-to-date texts. Non english speaking could rely on translation and native literature about creative writing.

Bibliography

Orson Scott Card, Characters and Viewpoint, 1988 tr. it. I personaggi e il punto di vista (Preview on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=gNYtrafWhDwC)
Lewis Turco, Dialogue, 1989 tr. it. Il dialogo (http://books.google.com/books?id=3ycBJgAACAAJ)

P.S. A bibliography about "Creative writing for Visual novels" could be useful among the howtos.

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Re: First person writing

#34 Post by Kageryu » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:33 am

Seeing how this is a forum for VISUAL novels, I think all the "writers" that have been arguing about first versus third person writing are severely misguided.

In terms of novel writing, some professionals may prefer third person over first, so they can provide a vivid description free of the muck that comes with hearing it through the voice of a character, but these are VISUAL novels, I must remind. If you go into a VISUAL novel expecting to write the next great piece of novel literature, you have a seriously skewed view of the genre.

I think it's funny no one has noted some of the best VISUAL novel writers, Kinoko Nasu, Jun Maeda, the writers at Leaf, Navel, Circus, etc.

The best VISUAL novels were almost all written in the first person. VISUAL novels as a standard almost have to be written in the first person in order for the player to be able to better relate to the main character.

Tsukihime, Fate/stay night, AIR, Kanon, Clannad, Little Busters, To Heart, Da Capo, TokiMemo, Utawarerumono, Shuffle, Soul Link, Baldr Sky, Otome wa Boku ni Koishiteru, Chaos;Head, Saya no Uta, Kira Kira, Princess Waltz, the list goes on.

Most of these VISUAL novels had main characters that weren't supposed to be the player, they had their own styles, voices, personalities, etc. that made them unique. These VISUAL novels were written in the first person in order for the player to get a more intimate relationship with them.

This thread was funny, but now onto the topic.

I find something I've always liked reading in VISUAL novels, as well as try to incorporate into my own style is less a focus on the descriptions of the world, and setting and more a focus on the thinking of the main character. The VISUAL aspect of the VISUAL novel should do most of the VISUAL work for you, so try to focus on what the MC is thinking about and how he's seeing his world in his own world.

You can get away with a lot if your MC has a really strong voice that makes him sound like an actual person and not a writer describing a scene.
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Re: First person writing

#35 Post by kinougames » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:22 pm

Kageryu wrote:Kageryu's rant about VISUAL novels.
It's a severe misnomer to go and highlight half of "visual novel" while proceeding to ignore that it is still a novel. Emphasize visual all you want...it will still remain half the battle and only half the enjoyment of a visual novel. (Note that you don't see many VNs that are just pictures moving by themselves.)

At any rate, skill in first or third person depending on one's personal talents for writing.

In third person, you must be able to describe what is going on without being repetitive or abusing cliche turns of phrase.

In the first person, you must be able to make dialogue that actually sounds like someone would say aloud, while still keeping to a certain level of coherence. (Not going overboard on stuttering/accents/etc.)

Stick with what you are better at; though if you think that writing an entire VN that is supposed to pass feasibly for dialogue is easy, think again. A lot of writers had first person because others think it will be easy (just like talking!) and it's not even close.
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Re: First person writing

#36 Post by Wintermoon » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:05 pm

Comic books are as visual as visual novels, but tend to use third person. Movies are as visual as visual novels, tend to use third person. Both of these media occasionally use first-person narration, but generally keep narration to a minimum, and almost always use third-person visuals (i.e. world not seen through the eyes of any character).

Visual novels tend to include in-character choices. Because these choices are made by the player playing as the protagonist, the player is required to strongly identify with the protagonist. The use of first person visuals (i.e. world seen through the eyes of the protagonist) is one tool to make the player identify more strongly with the protagonist. The use of first (or second) person narration is another such tool. First (or second) person narration is generally the grammatical person of choice even for non-visual interactive novels.

Incidentally, I suspect that a large part of the reason why visual novels generally use first person instead of second person is because of their Japanese origin. In English, you always use the second person pronoun "you" when talking about the person you are addressing. In Japanese, there is a wide selection of words that can be used as second person pronouns, all with different levels of politeness and different implications about the relationship between the speaker and the listener. The preferred idiomatic way to refer to the listener is to use either the listener's name or a noun describing the listener instead of a second person pronoun. This is of course indistinguishable from third person. In short, second person in Japanese is even more awkward than second person in English, so first person is used instead.
Last edited by Wintermoon on Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: First person writing

#37 Post by FeatherThief » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:09 am

Personally for me I think the reson that first person is used in visual novels is that, in visual novels more than most other forms of the arts the goal of the creator is to have the person playing the game to fall in love with one or more of the characters. In my personal philosophy anything you write or create becomes its own new dimension, like one of Einstien's theroy's ( at the moment I can't recall which one) and that visual novels allow the player to feel more like they have escaped this dimension and reqached a new world. Also for another reason, first person is in my opinion choppy and in itself strange, like there is some higher power (do not ue this line to turn this into a arguement about god ) commanding you on what to do and making it seem like fate has control, ruining the feeling of freedom visual novels allow. First person also allows a more smooth in depth look into the scenery because even though there are visuals, if a picture is worth 1000 words, then write 1001. As Kageryu said, if all these professionals (and I was sad you left Minori off your list ) write their visual novels in first person, there must be a reason.

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Re: First person writing

#38 Post by Showsni » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:41 pm

Writing a visual novel in first or second person rather than third means you don't have to draw a sprite for the player character and cuts down the amount of work involved. Bonus!
meh.... let's simplify everything placing Caius Julius Caesar as PC and the first/third person issue is solved
Or one where you play as Queen Victoria. "We are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike."

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