What do you think about commercial game that use free assets

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Aleema
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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#16 Post by Aleema »

I personally have no problem with royalty-free licensing. Use it myself.

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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#17 Post by YonYonYon »

As a consumer
I prefer an original art (at least sprites). Heck, it would be a strange feeling to see for example "Marianna" from "insert-a-game-title" as "Leela" in a different game.
Free music is OK though
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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#18 Post by Pyonkotchi »

as a consumer
I don't mind free music. Backgrounds are kind of iffy.
I definitely think original CG and sprites is a must. I like to look at good art. it's weird seeing art that I saw in another game as well

as a developer,
I definitely want nice, original artworks, Musics and gui. It's a pride thing for me. if i had the money, I'd definitely rather spend hundreds on original art than use free stuff I found on the internet. every once in a while I think i'd be easier to use free sources and take the easy way out, but i'm too proud, I like to show off and say, THIS IS MINE, I WORKED HARD ON IT, SHOWER ME WITH PRAISE!
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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#19 Post by KomiTsuku »

kinougames wrote:Customers do not care about these things, and when you are asking for their money, they shouldn't care about them. It's simply how business works.
They shouldn't, but as the creator, I should. Finding ways to do something other than set stacks of money on fire should be something you consider. It IS always a risk, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to minimize it, if and when you can. Circumstances always dictate your moves.
papillon wrote: Also, I'm confused. Are we talking free or royalty-free? I've seen people describing art in games as "free" that I know is for sale in art packs... If you're buying art packs you're still 'putting money into the community'. And again, despite what you might think about originality, consumers will tend to fall over praising how great your bought-off-the-shelf art is, while sneering at the original art...
Very true. After the botches of hiring attempts, I ended up using art packs for everything other than the CGs in AV. It has been regarded by all of those who have seen the original attempts as a thousand times better. I was openly mocked after the first shot, and it cost 20x than the packs. If you were me, which would you side with? It is another one of the many reasons I am leery of artists. However, I'd like to go away from that, which is why I'm trying to find MORE artists to hire. The problem being that if it doesn't do well free with the money already invested into it, why should I invest more money into a bottomless sinkhole and go commercial?

Anyway, try to ignore me. I'm just a sad, bitter old writer who has gone years with no success on either the regular novels and VNs. I'm Winston Payne from Phoenix Wright...

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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#20 Post by Suikama »

KomiTsuku wrote: I'm Winston Payne from Phoenix Wright...
Hey, at least you still got your hair right?

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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#21 Post by LVUER »

Wow. I left for one night and BAM, two pages of replies ^_^ Thanks for the replies, guys (and girls)!

By free, I mean a completely free assets. You get for free without spending a penny. Just Google for "free something" and mountain of links awaits you. And if you know where to look, not only you get high quality free stuff, you also get free stuff that you could use legally for commercial products.

Of course this doesn't mean the said developer use 100% free stuff. It could be only 50%, or only BG. Especially for RPG games or other games that use tons of sprite (tree sprite, stone sprite, buildings, etc).

BTW, why people (consumer) are more forgiving towards the usage of free music but not so toward other assets, especially sprite?
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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#22 Post by Alera »

LVUER wrote: BTW, why people (consumer) are more forgiving towards the usage of free music but not so toward other assets, especially sprite?
As someone mentioned- the art is more likely to be remembered, the character design itself, while the music- kinda gets ignored. Which is too bad in my opinion. Music should be original too. :I Hmmm- I would forgive just free sound-effects. *I feel so cruel. XD *
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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#23 Post by KomiTsuku »

Suikama wrote:
KomiTsuku wrote: I'm Winston Payne from Phoenix Wright...
Hey, at least you still got your hair right?
I'm in the military. I have long since lost mah hair. What remains is slowly going gray. :cry:
LVUER wrote: BTW, why people (consumer) are more forgiving towards the usage of free music but not so toward other assets, especially sprite?
Music and BGs mostly. I'd say the reason is that it is a lot harder to find musicians than, say, sprite artists. A lot more expensive, too, for something that most people have a bad tendency to have muted.

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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#24 Post by DaFool »

KomiTsuku you should probably get out of commissioning those who draw anime-style. If you want more professional results you can get them from professional gamedev freelancers, although the minimum going rate would be in the hundreds per piece (instead of tens of dollars).

I've just gone beyond the $7000 mark in outlay and every other day I just feel like banging my head against the wall.

Since I come from no talent background, I treat all aspects of a game equally -- as such I've always aimed for custom art and music even in freeware.

I'm desperately hoping to have the same success and recognition that Scout has (sheer writing and programming prowess even in a low-cost package) although I fear I might end up meeting the same fate as Sakura River (top notch assets, lackluster reception)

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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#25 Post by Greeny »

LVUER wrote:BTW, why people (consumer) are more forgiving towards the usage of free music but not so toward other assets, especially sprite?
Well, for example, a classical composition can be public domain, but it's a classic, a really good piece that can really set the mood. Even Hollywood movies use certain compositions again and again.
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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#26 Post by KomiTsuku »

DaFool wrote:KomiTsuku you should probably get out of commissioning those who draw anime-style. If you want more professional results you can get them from professional gamedev freelancers, although the minimum going rate would be in the hundreds per piece (instead of tens of dollars).

I've just gone beyond the $7000 mark in outlay and every other day I just feel like banging my head against the wall.

Since I come from no talent background, I treat all aspects of a game equally -- as such I've always aimed for custom art and music even in freeware.

I'm desperately hoping to have the same success and recognition that Scout has (sheer writing and programming prowess even in a low-cost package) although I fear I might end up meeting the same fate as Sakura River (top notch assets, lackluster reception)
Oh, I'm in it for the long haul, and I have the budget to support the larger numbers, some very unique contacts in various industries, and ideas, if I'm ready to commit. However, I'm keeping my day job. The fact that none of my writing has ever really taken off keeps me worried about actually trying it, which is why I'm going about this very slow, slightly increasing quality advancement.

Anyway, I'm getting off-topic.

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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#27 Post by YonYonYon »

LVUER wrote: BTW, why people (consumer) are more forgiving towards the usage of free music but not so toward other assets, especially sprite?
I think it because music is used to set a mood. I mean, character named Christina can't be a character named Margarita. But sad music is always sad.

... d'uh... I mean, characters are a center of the story. Music is supporting story, but music is not a main thing.
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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#28 Post by papillon »

I'd say the reason is that it is a lot harder to find musicians than, say, sprite artists. A lot more expensive, too, for something that most people have a bad tendency to have muted.
This is totally not the case though. It is a MILLION times easier to find musicians. There are dozens of websites where you can buy ready-made songs or even entire CDs of music cheap. (Price varies, but cheap is out there.) If you make indie games you will be constantly deleting emails from musicians asking for work. Half of them will volunteer to work for free.

Finding a really good musician to make custom music for you reliably and on schedule is difficult and expensive, yes. Finding music other than totally-free-on-the-internet music is easy.

The reason people on this board (who do not represent all consumers!) think the music doens't need to be original is that most people here are not musicians and don't really care about the music angle.

Just like with the art, some consumers will complain if they actually notice. I've seen threads on forums with customers freaking out because they recognised a piece of (royalty free) music that had been in another game and started accusing one game or the other of stealing it.

People here tend to be anime fans and they focus on the characters. And it _is_ distracting to see the same characters in more than one story because you may already have various emotions attached to them. You can get past that, just like you can get past seeing your favorite actor in a different role than the one she was famous for, but it's distracting.

Personally I would rather see the same BG popping up in multiple games than the same music... and it may not surprise you to know that I studied music in university, not art.

But seriously, never mistake a poll on a board of people who make games for a poll of consumers. :) (I repeat that line a LOT over in the Game Maker arena, where you'll get one twelve-year-old ask his GM-using school friends if they would buy a GM game, said friends say no because they can make one themselves, and the first person then announces his Totally Scientific Findings.)

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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#29 Post by DaFool »

KomiTsuku wrote:. However, I'm keeping my day job. The fact that none of my writing has ever really taken off keeps me worried about actually trying it, which is why I'm going about this very slow, slightly increasing quality advancement.

Anyway, I'm getting off-topic.
There are two ways to go about this:

1. Gain recognition
2. Go commercial

(Like that Interactive Fiction guy who got people to give him $25,000). They have a guaranteed audience.

The second way is the reality for most of the people on this board

1. I cannot find employment at the usual outlets
2. Go commercial (self-employed)

They have the free time to work on their games full-time.

So for people like us who still have day jobs it's a fine balancing act in gauging how much recognition is 'enough recognition' to make something a worthwhile hobby. Technically we should not compromise our day jobs and just aim to let the game-making help us find fulfillment and perhaps a little income, but not expect anything much to come out of it.

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Re: What do you think about commercial game that use free as

#30 Post by kinougames »

KomiTsuku you should probably get out of commissioning those who draw anime-style. If you want more professional results you can get them from professional gamedev freelancers, although the minimum going rate would be in the hundreds per piece (instead of tens of dollars).
Not necessarily. The problem with picking artists, and it's a problem that a LOT of indies actually have, is two things. 1) Going cheaper has a detriment in more ways than just "not getting good enough artists". If you have a decent eye, you can actually figure out who is going to match your work and who will not. On the flipside, if you don't have a good eye for portfolio choosing (lemme tell you, this is actually an art in itself that you should learn if you plan to be a game dev) you can easily come up with an amalgamation of screwed-up ugly even if the individual pieces are okay. And my group has learned this, and harrrrrrrrrrrd.

Though, once you reach a certain level, yes, you expect a price of $50 per colored sprite, not $5-10.
I've just gone beyond the $7000 mark in outlay and every other day I just feel like banging my head against the wall.

Since I come from no talent background, I treat all aspects of a game equally -- as such I've always aimed for custom art and music even in freeware.

I'm desperately hoping to have the same success and recognition that Scout has (sheer writing and programming prowess even in a low-cost package) although I fear I might end up meeting the same fate as Sakura River (top notch assets, lackluster reception).
You have the art. The question is whether or not you have the writing. And that's what it takes. I'm an anime fan, and have been since the age of like, 7 or something, and as varied as anime is, I'm really surprised that VNs tend to be the same regurgitated stories a lot of the time. The reason Sakura River did so poorly, and I played their demo, and it was obvious from the first 10 minutes; the writing was pretty terrible. There was a diatribe in the beginning of the game, and none of it was interesting. There was a full 15-20 minutes of reading all about bubble tea flavors. Nothing should ever be written about for 20 minutes if it has no real, meaty bearing on the story, even if the story is seventylleven hours long. (And tbh, Scout is not exactly my favorite writer either, she hits all the tropes and it's easy to figure out what's going/what is going to be going on very quickly which leads to dull games for me.)

I was called on to edit a piece for another game and I tell ya, a lot of times it's obvious that writing gets ignored on these projects. I used to make a lot of comments on games here about the writing, but they seemed to go unheeded, and I think that besides art, writing needs to be vastly improved. VASTLY. More so than the art, even, in a lot of cases, because there has been tons of writing I would have edited out of a game, had I been the editor, that stayed and no one seemed to notice.

A lot of people here talk about how "they've seen X-cliche and X-trope done well so everyone should do it!" but the fact of the matter is, you probably have, done by someone with much more writing talent than you. Pick something else. Anything else. At the very least you'll be different than mainstream.
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