Lemma Soft Forums

PyTom wrote:Right now it looks like it will be requiring android 2.0, just based on the libraries that I can use. You'd also want a reasonable phone - hardware OpenGL is important.

What about tablets? I know Google is on record saying Android isn't ready for tablets but I don;t think the market is willing to wait for them to give their blessings. As said before I have a Pandigital Novel which is built on Android 2.0 and I imagine come Black Friday this year cheap Android Tablets like that one will very much be on the menu.

You mentioned phones there, but what about Tablets what will the hardware requirements be expected for those?

I ask because I've been eying some of the newer Tablets to come out and want to make sure anything I buy will be supported.

Thanks again for your time.

--bornagainpenguin

I'd expect the hardware requirements to be the same for tablets. Android is abstract enough that there shouldn't be much of a difference between a phone and tablet game, except maybe for the user interface.

Disclaimer: This is still software that's under development. So specs might change - buy hardware at your own risk. (And don't buy anything that comes with less than android 2.1.)

PyTom wrote: My current thoughts is that I will make a "Ren'Py Launcher" app available in the market. This will scan a directory on the sd card for games, and then run them. So to get a game running on Android, one would have to unzip it to the sd card. This will be free and open source.

In addition to that, I'm probably going to offer the ability to combine Ren'Py with a reasonably sized game, and make the combination available in the market. Since packaging a project for the market is somewhat difficult, this will be a pay service, at least for commercial games. At some point, I'll probably offer up ad-network integration, to provide an alternative model. (I'm also considering this for desktop games.)

Is the 25mb apk limit still in effect? It sucks that Apple has the advantage here (wi-fi is assumed so I believe the limit was 2GB) It will also feel weird if the customer has to manually download and install a separate data package onto SD card for the rest of the game.

I sincerely hope Android implementation for tablets proves much more viable. There are quite a few developers now working in HD resolution and performance is sometimes sluggish. It just doesn't feel like the same Ren'Py anymore that worked perfectly on ten-year-old computers (the benefits of OpenGL and ATL outweigh it). It looks like at least tablet PCs / netbooks will have the minimum hardware to run the game without seriously gimping the port.

What exactly is ad-network integration for desktop games? Is this the steam-like implementation where you just download the Ren'Py Browser and it scans uploaded games similar to
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =11&t=8257
Will there will be an opt-in/opt-out form for people to waiver... separating games that are strictly free vs games that allow themselves to contribute to the Ren'Py development fund by the number of plays.

I'm not opposed to it because it feels like shareware and shareware is synonymous with hobbyist devs (which most of us are) as opposed to "real" indie devs (those that start companies and actually have a business plan). Few games are big enough to stand on their own so packing them up feels like the wiser thing to do.

Also, I know it's too early to ask, but Windows Phone 7?

DaFool wrote:Is the 25mb apk limit still in effect? It sucks that Apple has the advantage here (wi-fi is assumed so I believe the limit was 2GB) It will also feel weird if the customer has to manually download and install a separate data package onto SD card for the rest of the game.

I'm not sure. A downloader system might be an option for bigger games.

What exactly is ad-network integration for desktop games?

The idea is to allow advertising inside games, using standard web-based ad networks. This could provide a "third way", something in-between pay games and totally free games. Or alternatively, allowing people to finance projects while still keeping the result free.

(Although probably off-topic for this thread, I wonder what sort of market there would be for this, just inside the community for some sort of in-game advertising, perhaps on the main and game menus, both from creators and potential advertisers.)

Also, I know it's too early to ask, but Windows Phone 7?

From what I understand, there's no way to run C and/or Python code on that platform - making a port impossible.

PyTom wrote:

DaFool wrote:Is the 25mb apk limit still in effect? It sucks that Apple has the advantage here (wi-fi is assumed so I believe the limit was 2GB) It will also feel weird if the customer has to manually download and install a separate data package onto SD card for the rest of the game.

I'm not sure. A downloader system might be an option for bigger games.

Do Android packages allow auto-installing of dependencies?

What exactly is ad-network integration for desktop games?

The idea is to allow advertising inside games, using standard web-based ad networks. This could provide a "third way", something in-between pay games and totally free games. Or alternatively, allowing people to finance projects while still keeping the result free.

ACK. There are all manner of ways that that could go horribly wrong, and stopping some of them requires ongoing work for the life of the program. I doubt anyone wants to spend time checking to see if the people advertising *now* in a game they released last year are currently filling the menu screen with scams and trojan downloaders, much less checking on what the people advertising in a game from last decade are up to.

(Also, ad money is a pittance unless a project is insanely popular, IMO.)

Spiky Caterpillar wrote: Do Android packages allow auto-installing of dependencies?

If you're talking about a .apk (Android package, equivalent to Java's .jar) file requiring another .apk, no. You've got to detect the .apk and re-route them back to the Market if it's not there.

However, resource files are a possibility to drastically reduce the size of the .apk file. Basically, place all the .rpyc files (and script_version.rpy) into the .apk, then have the program require that you download its data.rpa into either /data or /sdcard, preferably into a unique folder. (Especially since a VN fan would have multiple games on their phones.)
Resource files are, if not expressly permitted, at least tolerated by Google, as proven through at least Glu Mobile's games. (Try Super K.O. Boxing 2 for example.)

Do Android packages allow auto-installing of dependencies?
what?why

For the person asking why someone would want ads rather than paid directly for downloads:

http://phandroid.com/2010/11/26/rovio-o ... te-coming/

SO consider if they only get paid an average of 1 cent per user one time. That's still enough money that I could live on. Now, how much more likely are you to get thousands or hundreds of thousands of downloads if your game is free than if you have to pay even a small sum like 0.99 for it?

FWIW,
Ewan

don’t even want to begin thinking about how much money they’re making from ads

If is like the Flash CPM (and I don't see why it would be higher), with 7M download they could make around 1000-1200. But let's say that is 3 time flash CPM, so $3000-4000. It would be rather a big failure as desktop downloadable game (if was so popular I mean!).

edit: while I am against ads in general, I can see how for certain situations would be suitable though. Games that for a reason or another fail to sell at fullprice (or even at half price) could benefit from this.

Evidently the Android CPM is a little higher. Of course that's partly because they get a new chance to show an ad every time the level restates. Equivalent would be if you had a banner that refreshed with each new text box. Anyway, a bit better breakdown from another Android developer (numbers are about halfway through):
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/games/7 ... g-stuffer/

I suspect that a pure VN game would have trouble gaining the massive install base that something like Angry Birds has - so the numbers could be very different.

In othern news, Android Ren'Py is proceeding well - I'm expecting a public beta of the Android version of "The Question" any day now. Open issues blocking that are:

- The speed of dissolve is very slow on many devices. I plan to speed it up, but change the semantics somewhat - it's either that, or become incompatible with a lot of hardware.
- The auto-save on device suspend isn't working, for some reason.
- The interface for The Question needs to be redone somewhat, to make it more touch-friendly.

I'll note that despite betas, Android Ren'Py will only become a supported thing with the 6.12 release, which is probably still a couple months off.

For now, I'm looking for testers who know how to install .apk files. Even more important are testers who know how to use adb logcat to get the debug dumps from their phone or tablet.

EwanG wrote:Evidently the Android CPM is a little higher. Of course that's partly because they get a new chance to show an ad every time the level restates. Equivalent would be if you had a banner that refreshed with each new text box. Anyway, a bit better breakdown from another Android developer (numbers are about halfway through):
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/games/7 ... g-stuffer/

Haha I love those fake figures post
From the article:

If we assume they are earning a revenue per thousand impressions (RPM) of around $2 and generating 1 million ad impressions per day, that equals around $2k per day or $60k per month.

LOL a RPM of $2 is INSANE. That's totally IMPOSSIBLE, believe me. Indeed, I've asked on indiegamer: http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=23190
and an user said:

It varies by ad network, but it's sad to say, I'm typically getting eCPMs of between $0.10-0.20. Last year around this time I had stretches where I was getting around $1.00. I really miss those days.

the ad-sponsor market is really on free-fall (because the sponsor found out that nobody buys anything of what they're advertising). And a VN would never get nowhere close not to 7M, but to 500k, even free. The best story-based game on kongregate, "trader of stories", got only 231k views... a random zombie shooter of poor quality gets 100k easily!

Google Begins Mandatory Content Ratings For Android Market

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3175 ... Market.php

Sexual and Suggestive Content
Apps that include suggestive or sexual references should be rated “Teen” or above. Apps that focus on such content should be rated “Mature”. Pornography is not allowed in Android Market.

There goes all hope for an eroge renaissance on Android. I guess iOS/Android are now similar to Playstation/Xbox360 in getting "All-Ages" (more like 'Teen') versions.

At the very least at least we don't need to pay ESRB.

Another data point - a Polish developer who breaks down his income from ads on his site versus ads on his Android application, etc:

http://www.kreci.net/reports/developer-income-report-5/

Evidently he made $1691 from the Android ads last month. Not enough to live off of (in the US), but certainly enough to justify some time and money in writing an app

Yes, that's fine I think that's because the market is new and it got a cash injection from advertisers, then once they find out ads in games don't work (like most companies found out on flash/iphone) the eCPM will drop significantly. However in the beginning might be good