Looking for Graphic (Concept) Artist (Unpaid) [CLOSED]

[Uriel1339]

Dear Community,

after finding successful a few story writers here I decided also to open a thread to look for unpaid graphic artists. I have a game project going on which is still in the concept & planning phase. Therefore I am most likely looking for a concept artist who should be able to draw characters, buildings and / or areas in a post-apocalyptic and / or war-themed matter.

The game is a post-apocalyptic RPG, settled in a near future, but based on today's knowledge and understanding whenever science topics come up. On the fiction side I want to keep it as low as possible, therefore also no zombies or mutants.

It could also be that the artist will or can (volunteer) collaborate on the Logo of the project / game as there is none yet. Furthermore to describe the required work further in detail I made a list of what I hope to get from the artist:

- Soldiers / tanks / planes / ships (military in general) during the War, before the apocalypse
- Raiders & Survivors after the apocalypse
- Destroyed / Damaged Cities after the apocalypse
- Same Cities as the destroyed / damaged ones, but before the apocalypse / war
- "detailed" concept art on the main characters

The project I fear is really something that the world could need. Therefore I will give more detailed information only with a NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) out. Though you also can look in this thread where I posted before to eventually find more information: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 38&t=22238

What I do offer for you:

- Honest, loyal, team-based work environment within the project.
- Private Project Forum to discuss the games mechanics, design, marketing, etc.
- Collaborate on the Logo
- Collecting experience (especially interesting for Beginners) and work for own portfolio
- Access to all game phases (Alpha, Beta, Completed Game)
- Rights on your work stays with you, I only will have the license / right to use your work, but the rights of creation and the work itself stays with you so you can use it in future projects, alternate it or use it in any other way you might like.
- An interesting game that could finally bring change to the post-apocalyptic scenarios as we have to endure them lately (Zombie Games are overkilled!)

if you are interested or want to know more please PM me or E-Mail me at: Andreas.Krewer@gmx.net

Thank you very much in advance!

Sincerely,

Andreas Krewer / Uriel1339

Edit: added "What I do offer you" Section

!Closed!

[Taleweaver]

So you're looking for unpaid concept artists to help you work on a game you intend to release commercially, right?

[Uriel1339]

Indeed, though the project will be crowdfunded when the time comes. Also I mentioned there could be payment when I should decide to release or make an art book of the game. What I forgot to mention is if I decide to include an art book in the crowdfunding campaign, that the Artist will also get a cut of that.

But I cannot offer a budget or a cut of the profit at this time.

I know this sounds rather like "scam" but I am honest and in 1-on-1 talks with an applicant I would clear things up BEFORE the actual work would start, I do not like to keep people in the unknown or "possibilities". So if any potential applicant has a question, just contact me here via PM, post in the thread or write me an e-mail at andreas.krewer@gmx.net

Thank you very much in advance for your time and interest!

Sincerely,

Andreas Krewer / Uriel1339

[Greeny]

But I cannot offer a budget or a cut of the profit at this time.

Why can't you offer a cut of the profit?

[Uriel1339]

I cannot offer a cut of the profit because my profit will most likely getting cut by the development team, including coders / scripters, animator/s, level designer, sound / music composition, story writers, 2D & 3D Designer. I am looking here for a concept artist who will take care of pre-development design, which can include bare ideas or to help the story writing and later perhaps the designers which will actually design the objects for the game.

Therefor it is not even sure how much the concept art will help in the finished game. Ideas can be often scrapped and start all over again, especially if it comes to design.

I also do not expect works for months, depending on work speed. I really look for CONCEPT art and PROBABLY collaboration on the logo design, but that is about it. So a concept artist could be eventually working only for 4-6 weeks, depending on speed and required concept and then that would be it (while the work time would be I estimate around 6-12 hours a week).

Nonetheless I value the work and that is why there is the possibility of an art book where also the concept art will be included and of course the artist would be mentioned in the credits of the game, which can help to fill up a resumee or to gain experience as I take this project really serious.

PS: Unlike the most projects I have seen here I do not plan a visual novel, I plan an isometric post-apocalyptic game (no zombies / mutants). If it would be a visual novel where design is much more valuable and important, then I would for sure grant profit cut.

[lemonscent]

Isn't this a visual novel forums? *cough cough*

[Kami]

Firstly, if you want a free work force, make game free, learn a rule: if you want profit you have to invest, which means no one will ever work for free in a commercial project.

You are saying that it is "just" concept art for design level (I am educated game developer), but without design level you wont move anywhere further. Every stage of development is EQUALLY important. And working 6-12h a week is quite a lot of time and believe me art is difficult to come up with, unless of course you want some beginners who would use this as opportunity to practice, but then the art quality you will get will be worth the money you are putting in - none.

[Uriel1339]

Indeed it is, but there are also definitely talents which can expand their skills and mind BEYOND Visual Novels. To be creative means also to accept challenges, to find new paths, to learn what you are capable of. I found here already story writers which were interested in my isometric post-apocalyptic RPG. And so I am full of hope that I also might find Concept Artists, though only one or two have applied from here yet.

Also I have my experience that Manga and Anime fans / drawers are often in general good artists, had 2 personal friends which were like that. And so I came to the idea to ask for Concept Artists for my game on this forum.

Furthermore I understand that Free Work vs. Commercial Release statement. And I also like to give anybody a chance to improve their skills, widen their portfolio and find their style. As you probably noticed I did not ask for any particular skill level. I welcome beginners as much as professionals. Furthermore I want to give people an opportunity to work on a great and non-clone project which really could make RPG's and the post-apocalyptic scenario interesting again.

And I do not deny profit, I just say I cannot guarantee it. IF there will be concept art ever published if within the game as some kind of gallery or as an art book, I am ready to pay the original creator their share on it. Also I said before that I would clear anything up before the actual work starts. This means Time investment, possible budgets, etc. I really am an honest, loyal and team-based person and hope not to annoy or scare people off with the way I write and what I hope to find here.

I also do not want to provoke discussions or arguments, all I ask for is interested concept artists who want to join the project. What I should have mentioned and also will add in my OP is that every project member of course will gain access to the different development stages this means Closed Alpha, Beta and of course will get a free copy of the game once it is finished. And I know that ALL development stages are equally important. That is why I look for a concept artist NOW, while I am still in the concept / planning phase of the game.

That way the concept artist really plays a big role before Phase 2, the actual development starts. Furthermore the Concept Artist is in basic giving the looks and ideas of how things later in the actual game will look like. The characters, vehicles, buildings, etc.

And I have to disagree with Kami that the art quality will be worth none for the creator. The creator still owns the rights to his works, I do not claim that it is my work. This means the original creator only licenses me that I am ALLOWED to use his work. In other words: the same work s/he would make for me could be used by her/himself on future projects.

Therefore, anyone who might be interested in this opportunity, please PM me, reply to this thread or e-mail me at andreas.krewer@gmx.net

[VHC_Softwares]

What exactly is your contribution to this lovely project? Just the basic idea? You've come here seeking to pay people 0-3% for the entirety of writing and concept art. It seems like you also intend to hire programmers, artists, musicians, and game designers on top of that. I assume that all of those will be unpaid until/unless you turn a profit on the game. Getting your dream game created for you at no risk or investment sounds like a sweet deal to me.

I'm beginning to doubt that you have anything to offer. Giving your workers access to the game that THEY are creating is not a privilege. A private forum/team workspace should also not be a privilege. And letting everyone keep rights to their work? If you aren't paying or paying just peanuts, they better keep those rights!

And lets not forget the "chance to improve their skills, widen their portfolio and find their style". Literally anyone can offer that. I can ask someone to draw a picture of my genitalia and offer that.

You really need to review this crowdsourcing and crowdfunding thing. I don't know who eagerly jumped at the idea to give you free assets for a commercial game, but more skilled people won't be so easily deceived. Well, at least you're ambitious for a 20 year old.

[Taleweaver]

Isn't this a visual novel forums? *cough cough*

We also allow for story-based games. And as "Torment" and "Dragon Age" have show, RPGs can be highly story-based.

Aside from that, I very much agree with many of the sentiments expressed in this thread. You're asking for 24 - 72 manhours of creative work. While I'm certain you'd easily find people who'd do this out of sheer love for the art in a non-commercial game, for a commercial release, you should be willing to invest at least a little money. I'm certain you'd find someone of the appropriate skill to do this for somewhere between $100 and $300. And if you don't expect to gain enough profit from your game to afford that much, maybe your game idea isn't that groundbreaking after all.

If you're truly certain you'll have a winner, you should venture some of your money into it. I only recently invested around $1000 into art and music resources for my next project. And I don't even consider that a major investment.

[Uriel1339]

Iam NOT just "the guy with the idea" I create the whole basic for the project. This means I work out the whole GDD (Game Design Document) and the basic of the story (back ground stories, main events, etc.) I need the writers most likely for the dialogues since I am bad in writing those, but also to help structuring the whole thing as I plan 3 complete individual characters you can choose from with different backgrounds, etc. (similar to dragon age origins) which then all will have different progresses during the game. But I will definitely provide a huge part in that.

Furthermore I will manage the whole project, including marketing strategies. Also there are a few plans I cannot reveal as it would ruin my idea of how I will handle the game, it's fanbase and the marketing itself.

And I do not even know with what I earn that "bashing" from you, VHC_Software. I understand your worries, but it should be still the people's decision if they like to work for the project or not. And I never mentioned that I give any "Privileges" I just say what I offer for the ones who decide to work for me.

Also doubting that I have ANYTHING to offer, well the ones who decided to join my team (composers & writers) can tell you something else about it, but that does not belong here.

You do not know how far my progresses are or what my plans are, so you just start discussing and making your own theories up. I think that is a bad behavior since it could scare people off. Also one of my team's members said that especially Artists look rather for compensations than writers and composers. But that it is THAT drastic I would have not imagined.

And I am not ambitious, I just have a dream and have the will to achieve it. And I said a few times by now: If I decide to make an art book, including their art they will get compensated, or if I should in any other way publish their work. But as long as it stays WITHIN the project, I am not going to compensate for the work. Let's say one of the Tiers during the crowdfund campaign includes concept art or the whole art book, then I will compensate each Artist who worked on it or whom's work it includes.

But I am not looking for an argumentation or discussion, so let it be my worry if it scares people off or they are not interested. The Post says already "(Unpaid)" so if people look for compensation then they would not look in here, right?

So please let it be my worry and theirs, also I talk open and honest with ALL of the potential project members and of course still when they decide to join the project.

Regarding the last answer: If people are interested they for sure can 1-on-1 approach me. I found a composer team of 2 persons who even only want $400 to make all the tracks in my project. Though even if I would go and say I would give $200 for a concept artist, I would not be able to pay till the crowdfund campaign would be successful. But if somebody wants to be compensated for the work within my project, then I expect really high-quality work, even if it's "just" concept art.

To mention again: The post says already "(Unpaid)" in the title.

[Googaboga]

Listen I know you have tried to be as professional about this as possible but you need to understand what you have done here is very bad form and you are going to get negative reactions because of it. Unfortunately you are in a very hard spot for game makers right now and it is difficult to get out from where you are. And that spot is being a person with little to no upfront money, no completed games behind you, and basically nothing to show for your idea because you need to keep it under wraps. Your one on one talks may be fine for people willing to do that but to the over all community you have presented yourself in a very poor light. I will try to help you understand where this negativity is coming from by talking a little bit about how you appear from the outside since you may not be able to see it the same way others probably are.

You say you are good to work with and team oriented. But you joined a community forum and have used it as a means just to get free labor. No one here knows you, you have no real presence, and you don't talk about other people's projects or anything else at all for that matter. To the people of this forum you are someone who is only concerned about their own interests and doesn't care about anything other than your project, yourself, and getting people to do work for you. I'm not saying this is true I am saying this is how you have presented yourself by joining this forum solely to talk about your project

You say you are confident that you can get this project done and have people invest in it because it will be great. However, in order to complete this game you need a large amount of help from others and no real way to pay them for it. So it doesn't matter how ambitious you are if you can't do it alone since you may never get the help/funds required to make it happen. Not to mention most people who set out to create a game never finishes. I'm not trying to insult you but that is the truth. Hundreds of people say the exact same things about how they have the will to complete their project and then never do. Unless someone has previous experience it can be hard to get taken seriously. Especially when they are investing little to no money of their own and are relying on crowdfunding/free labor to get it done. Of course maybe you will get it done but it is completely understandable that most people are going to be wary.

And lastly you say the concept art is just as important as any other step. But you've treated the concept art in a way that is belittling. Let me explain what I mean by that. You have done two things to belittle the concept art and here are some examples:

Code: Select all

Therefor it is not even sure how much the concept art will help in the finished game. Ideas can be often scrapped and start all over again, especially if it comes to design.

Code: Select all

If I decide to make an art book, including their art they will get compensated, or if I should in any other way publish their work. But as long as it stays WITHIN the project, I am not going to compensate for the work. 

Asking someone to put hours of work into a game for free while saying that this work you need "so much" may amount to almost nothing in the actual game is a very unprofessional thing to do. And you need to realize that even if there are people who love games so much that they are willing to do it anyways doesn't make it okay. Offering credit and experience as though that is enough to make it okay doesn't work (unless you are a well known company).

Also you are saying you won't pay them unless you show off their actual concept art in someway. That is a terrible business practice. These people are not just giving you pieces of art that aren't worth anything unless you use the exact piece of art to make money. You've even said yourself that they could very well be playing a big role in the first stages and the overall look of the game. That is a big contribution. They will have worked for hours and if you do end up using designs they came up with in your game of course you should pay them whether or not you make an art book using their actual pieces of art. And I will say it again; even if there are people who would do such a thing that doesn't make it okay.

Also you say that people who aren't interested in free work don't need to bother with this thread because you stated it is unpaid. And that people should just let it be your worry and their worry. And there is some truth to that however the people on this site care about the other members. They don't want to see people who love games and art and writing so much that they are willing to do it for free be taken advantage of. And to be honest that is what you are doing or at least that is seriously what it seems like you are doing. You appear to be taking advantage of someone by asking for a lot of work (I mean just look at that list of all the different things you are asking for) and paying a small amount of money or nothing at all when they would be working on a project that is supposed to make money. And I will say this one last time; yes you have found people who are okay with that but other members want these people to know that they deserve better. If they still want to work with you fine, that is their choice. But many members on this site are going to be bothered by how you are running this operation and you are going to have to deal with that or change the way are doing things.

So yeah my advice to you would be to at least try to understand that you did not present this in a good way even if that wasn't your intention and perhaps skip the concept art stage. Just have people already on your team make a text description of what you need and then hire artists to do the actual art for the game off of what you guys came up with. If you truly can't continue without actual concept art there is no excuse not to pay for it. Even if it doesn't end up in the game the time and effort they gave you still exists and that is worth a payment.

[tnm6]

Listen I know you have tried to be as professional about this as possible but you need to understand what you have done here is very bad form and you are going to get negative reactions because of it. Unfortunately you are in a very hard spot for game makers right now and it is difficult to get out from where you are. And that spot is being a person with little to no upfront money, no completed games behind you, and basically nothing to show for your idea because you need to keep it under wraps. Your one on one talks may be fine for people willing to do that but to the over all community you have presented yourself in a very poor light. I will try to help you understand where this negativity is coming from by talking a little bit about how you appear from the outside since you may not be able to see it the same way others probably are.

You say you are good to work with and team oriented. But you joined a community forum and have used it as a means just to get free labor. No one here knows you, you have no real presence, and you don't talk about other people's projects or anything else at all for that matter. To the people of this forum you are someone who is only concerned about their own interests and doesn't care about anything other than your project, yourself, and getting people to do work for you. I'm not saying this is true I am saying this is how you have presented yourself by joining this forum solely to talk about your project

You say you are confident that you can get this project done and have people invest in it because it will be great. However, in order to complete this game you need a large amount of help from others and no real way to pay them for it. So it doesn't matter how ambitious you are if you can't do it alone since you may never get the help/funds required to make it happen. Not to mention most people who set out to create a game never finishes. I'm not trying to insult you but that is the truth. Hundreds of people say the exact same things about how they have the will to complete their project and then never do. Unless someone has previous experience it can be hard to get taken seriously. Especially when they are investing little to no money of their own and are relying on crowdfunding/free labor to get it done. Of course maybe you will get it done but it is completely understandable that most people are going to be wary.

And lastly you say the concept art is just as important as any other step. But you've treated the concept art in a way that is belittling. Let me explain what I mean by that. You have done two things to belittle the concept art and here are some examples:

Code: Select all

Therefor it is not even sure how much the concept art will help in the finished game. Ideas can be often scrapped and start all over again, especially if it comes to design.

Code: Select all

If I decide to make an art book, including their art they will get compensated, or if I should in any other way publish their work. But as long as it stays WITHIN the project, I am not going to compensate for the work. 

Asking someone to put hours of work into a game for free while saying that this work you need "so much" may amount to almost nothing in the actual game is a very unprofessional thing to do. And you need to realize that even if there are people who love games so much that they are willing to do it anyways doesn't make it okay. Offering credit and experience as though that is enough to make it okay doesn't work (unless you are a well known company).

Also you are saying you won't pay them unless you show off their actual concept art in someway. That is a terrible business practice. These people are not just giving you pieces of art that aren't worth anything unless you use the exact piece of art to make money. You've even said yourself that they could very well be playing a big role in the first stages and the overall look of the game. That is a big contribution. They will have worked for hours and if you do end up using designs they came up with in your game of course you should pay them whether or not you make an art book using their actual pieces of art. And I will say it again; even if there are people who would do such a thing that doesn't make it okay.

Also you say that people who aren't interested in free work don't need to bother with this thread because you stated it is unpaid. And that people should just let it be your worry and their worry. And there is some truth to that however the people on this site care about the other members. They don't want to see people who love games and art and writing so much that they are willing to do it for free be taken advantage of. And to be honest that is what you are doing or at least that is seriously what it seems like you are doing. You appear to be taking advantage of someone by asking for a lot of work (I mean just look at that list of all the different things you are asking for) and paying a small amount of money or nothing at all when they would be working on a project that is supposed to make money. And I will say this one last time; yes you have found people who are okay with that but other members want these people to know that they deserve better. If they still want to work with you fine, that is their choice. But many members on this site are going to be bothered by how you are running this operation and you are going to have to deal with that or change the way are doing things.

So yeah my advice to you would be to at least try to understand that you did not present this in a good way even if that wasn't your intention and perhaps skip the concept art stage. Just have people already on your team make a text description of what you need and then hire artists to do the actual art for the game off of what you guys came up with. If you truly can't continue without actual concept art there is no excuse not to pay for it. Even if it doesn't end up in the game the time and effort they gave you still exists and that is worth a payment.

Very well said! Though, in reality, it remains true that people's decisions remain their own. If someone wants to work for free, we don't have the license to stop them :/

[PyTom]

The post says already "(Unpaid)" in the title.

That isn't some sort of circle of protection, though. If you say unpaid, and people think you're being unfair by not offering pay, they're allowed to say so.

At the same time, I do ask that if people respond, they say something original and thought out, rather than piling on.

[Kato]

When I read this last night I didn't think it would become do controversial but I suppose I should give my 2 cents from producer with no artistic talent to (I assume) producer with no artistic talent

For starters I understand, though don't quite agree, where you're coming from. Someone willing to work for beans for something you may or may not use is a dream catch to a producer on a budget, but as far as I see it concept art is as important as finished art, the writing, the programming or even the absurd amounts of coffee you drink to stay up that extra couple hours. I think you hit the nerve in two spots in your post in regards to this.

Firstly, and probably mainly, offering payment if you publish the concepts in whatever form but not offering payment if you choose not to is the big kicker. The way I see it, publishing the work doesn't matter all that much, it's the use of the work that's the issue. If the concept art helps A get to B then I would assume they would get a share of the profits from B regardless if B shows any of their work. If their work isn't needed to for A to get to B then there isn't any point having concepts made up and something like descriptions or stick figure drawings will suffice.

Relatedly, forgetting everything that was mentioned about joining the forum purely to recruit and head hunt, the way you presented it seemed to condescend the artists here. Anyone can offer experience, names on a credit reel isn't enough of a reward and I know you probably didn't mean it this way but when I was reading the initial post it just seemed like you were saying that that's all the art was worth. Honestly, I wouldn't even dream of getting concept work without paying for it.

I would say the way to go is to offer at least SOME kind of payment if you don't publish the work, more if you do and if you can so without the concepts, don't have them drawn up at all. 40+ hours of drawing seems like too big a favor to expect from someone when you're a stranger to them. Perhaps rewording and revising your initial post is an idea too as it just seems too disrespectful of the artists here.

All that being said, that's just my view of it all as a fellow producer, the artists here may see it completely different to myself. If you intend to stick to your convictions I wish you all the luck in finding a free artist to work on this with, it might just be a little difficult finding one willing to work with the terms you've set in the end.