4 White Guys Productions: Looking for team members!

For recruitment of team members to help create visual novels and story-based games, and for people who want to offer their services to create the same.
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papillon
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Re: 4 White Guys Productions: Looking for team members!

#16 Post by papillon » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:45 am

Well yeah, taking the money and disappearing is obviously wrong and bad.

Still doesn't seem like this project is particularly well planned-out.
He set the price and linked me to a sight where other indie visual novels were being sold, most ranging upwards of $40 and have sold several copies.
Are you perhaps talking about one of the sites that sells independent AND larger-company games side by side? Because I think you'll find that the $40+ games are not made by one or two people in a bedroom. (Speaking as someone who does make and sell games in a bedroom, so it's not like I'm knocking that. :) )

It's not reassuring to anyone who might get involved if you don't appear to know anything at all about the existing industry. Nor if your definition of success is "selling several copies".

(Also, have you set some money aside to pay for a proofreader? While it is absolutely possible to tell an entertaining story and still have problems with things like here/hear and sight/site, it is something that you need to clean up before trying to sell the finished product.)


Don't despair - it is possible to get sprite artwork done on a tight budget. It may not be the best spriting ever but you can do it. However, you need to pay up front and you need to lay out exactly what you need done. If you have a basically complete script at this point, you should be able to do that. Write down every piece of art you need. Cut corners if you have to. Figure out a reasonable minimum of art in order to make the game playable - it is possible to upgrade it later.

Then get the money together to pay an artist at a set per-piece rate. After all, if you're sure it will quickly make the money back after launch, you should be able to advance a little. A lot of indie developers fund their first game out of their own credit cards.

Even if the rate is not very good, you will have a MUCH better time finding artists on art sites if you can list out what you want and pay them for it as the work is done.

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Re: 4 White Guys Productions: Looking for team members!

#17 Post by Omniknight » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:58 am

papillon wrote:Don't despair - it is possible to get sprite artwork done on a tight budget. It may not be the best spriting ever but you can do it. However, you need to pay up front and you need to lay out exactly what you need done. If you have a basically complete script at this point, you should be able to do that. Write down every piece of art you need. Cut corners if you have to. Figure out a reasonable minimum of art in order to make the game playable - it is possible to upgrade it later.

If you're willing to send out 100 POLITE messages on deviantART, you might find a motivated hobbyist who is actually pretty talented willing to work for you for FREE (at least, that's what I did XD)

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Re: 4 White Guys Productions: Looking for team members!

#18 Post by trooper6 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:09 am

Bradok wrote: Second, I was recommended this site by another indie developer after he demoed my game. He set the price and linked me to a sight where other indie visual novels were being sold, most ranging upwards of $40 and have sold several copies. He said all the game lacked was decent character artwork and suggested I either use an editor and character templates or try to get a cheap freelancer.
May I ask what site this is?

Because I have never paid $40 for a visual novel...as a matter of fact, I've never even seen a visual novel that expensive.

In my experience, the bulk of english visual novels are put out free. Then there are the commercial ones. Sometimes a studio puts out a few free ones first to solidify their reputation then start charging. Some start charging right away.

I've seen some at the $10 price point, like Analogue: A Hate Story, and Long Live the Queen.
I've also seen some cheaper. Choice of Games sells theirs for $3. Leviathan's chapters are $3 a piece.

I paid $20 for Cinders mainly because it had outstanding reviews, I heard it was a feminist game, and I really wanted to support that.

Cyanide Tea is going to put out Break Chance Memento for $15, which I'll pay for because a) they have good politics, b) they have put out a number of free games that I have enjoyed and I want to give them money for that alone, c) I know the quality of their work and writing already.

But I don't know you. I just know that your studio is called 4 White Guys and you want to pay your artist $50 to do all the work for the game...which at 30+ hours sounds like a lot of work. And I know that you think indie visual novels are priced as high as $40...which boggles my mind. I'm a VN customer...and I'm not seeing anything in the original post (which is supposed to have more of a description of the project) which would inspire me to pay more than the average for this game.

You might want to rethink your price point and rethink your public and community relations strategy.
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Re: 4 White Guys Productions: Looking for team members!

#19 Post by Mad Harlequin » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:47 am

I can't say anything about pricing and art that hasn't already been said, but here are my thoughts on your group name.

Every company chooses a name that is somehow relevant to its product or symbolic of it in some way. Sometimes it's based on a founder's name (ex. Toyota).

Any relevancy "4WhiteGuysProductions" had---which, to be honest, was very little to begin with---is now gone with your co-founders. If you won't change the name out of a desire to prevent alienating others, change it because it's no longer an honest reflection of your group. It will confuse your consumers. It's neither clever nor funny and, as others have said, it is exclusionary. Who wants to work for a company or group that sounds like it doesn't recognize his or her contributions? Please reconsider your decision.
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Re: 4 White Guys Productions: Looking for team members!

#20 Post by Omniknight » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:36 pm

trooper6 wrote:
Bradok wrote: Second, I was recommended this site by another indie developer after he demoed my game. He set the price and linked me to a sight where other indie visual novels were being sold, most ranging upwards of $40 and have sold several copies. He said all the game lacked was decent character artwork and suggested I either use an editor and character templates or try to get a cheap freelancer.
May I ask what site this is?

Because I have never paid $40 for a visual novel...as a matter of fact, I've never even seen a visual novel that expensive.
Konosora, one of my all time favorites, is $30. I'm wondering, though, if you can produce anything even remotely comparable (in terms of scenario, programming, art etc) to that......? :wink:

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Re: 4 White Guys Productions: Looking for team members!

#21 Post by Omniknight » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:39 pm

Mad Harlequin wrote:I can't say anything about pricing and art that hasn't already been said, but here are my thoughts on your group name.

Every company chooses a name that is somehow relevant to its product or symbolic of it in some way. Sometimes it's based on a founder's name (ex. Toyota).

Any relevancy "4WhiteGuysProductions" had---which, to be honest, was very little to begin with---is now gone with your co-founders. If you won't change the name out of a desire to prevent alienating others, change it because it's no longer an honest reflection of your group. It will confuse your consumers. It's neither clever nor funny and, as others have said, it is exclusionary. Who wants to work for a company or group that sounds like it doesn't recognize his or her contributions? Please reconsider your decision.
Painfully true...

#Apologies for the double post. :lol:

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Re: 4 White Guys Productions: Looking for team members!

#22 Post by Asceai » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:41 pm

Because I have never paid $40 for a visual novel...as a matter of fact, I've never even seen a visual novel that expensive.
I regularly pay far more than that because when a new Japanese eroge comes out it's priced at 8800円 plus 8% consumption tax now. Together with shipping, the cost of an intermediary etc. the price can pretty quickly climb north of $120. And I don't mind, because this is my hobby and I enjoy them more than any other medium.

I'll pay that kind of money for an English VN when an English VN comes out at that level. =P

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Re: 4 White Guys Productions: Looking for team members!

#23 Post by Omniknight » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:05 pm

Asceai wrote: I'll pay that kind of money for an English VN when an English VN comes out at that level. =P
Good news! You just have to wait another 100 years.

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Re: 4 White Guys Productions: Looking for team members!

#24 Post by Asceai » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:19 pm

Omniknight wrote:
Asceai wrote: I'll pay that kind of money for an English VN when an English VN comes out at that level. =P
Good news! You just have to wait another 100 years.
so I'll get my English VN when Ron Paul becomes president? awesome

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Re: 4 White Guys Productions: Looking for team members!

#25 Post by Hazel-Bun » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:05 am

Yeah, I was just about to say that with the otome/otoge I consume, it can be well over $40 all together. But that's from brand name companies in visual novels country of origin, not an indie scene where the most successful VNs (by sales I'm assuming) mentioned above barely hit the $15 mark.

I think instead of starting a war of words here, it would be best for you to branch out and find people to work for you for cheap. I'd still highly recommend either a). Finishing all the assets you can without help and then paying half n' half or b). Be willing to sink more money in for higher quality work with something to bring to the table other than promises.

A lot of people look to see if you're "established" in their scene, so to speak, before they drop money on an obscure genre. Arguing over things that most of the vocal part of Lemma agrees on only makes you look bad. I wish you all the best!

P.S About the naming bussiness. Names and branding are all tough to wrap your mind around. Do what you think is best or the name you like the most, just be ready to deal with people's preconceived notions because of it.

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Re: 4 White Guys Productions: Looking for team members!

#26 Post by Ryuno » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:45 am

I don't mean to sound discouraging and the point about the art has already been voiced a lot, so all I'm going to ask is you at least got yourself royalty-free music for this, right? Because right now you're in a tough position as it is considering the estimated price and the lack of previous works/street cred, but all you mentioned in the budget so far is art and writing. It'd be nearly impossible to sell a VN with no audio nowadays, especially for more than $10.

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Re: 4 White Guys Productions: Looking for team members!

#27 Post by Taleweaver » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:55 am

After a few days, there's still insufficient information on the scope of the project, which is why I'm locking this thread.
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