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What is it in a story that really gets you hooked? Anybody can string a sentence together then get out the thesaurus, but I think it takes something special to relate a character's personality or to describe the setting with words that just seem right, as though no other way of writing it is conceivable to the reader. How do you feel? What is good literature and what isn't?

I think that this is a very subjective discussion. Different people like different things. While there may be some literary styles that instantly appeal to a large demographic, it wouldn't be really right to say that what the mainstream audience accepts as such is what is "good writing," because this would just be a majority rule argument. Meanwhile, saying that what a particular body or group of experts deem to be good writing is what is "good writing" would just be plain elitism the way I see it.

In my case, I can't really say what makes "good writing" because some stories just intrigue me easily and others don't - even if they come from the same author. For example, I really liked V for Vendetta but I thought Watchmen was just so-so; both stories are by Alan Moore.

There are some types of stories that I'm quite particular to, such as Narcissu and Planetarian, but this doesn't mean I can't also enjoy stories from other genre.

I think the only thing that we can really have a true consensus on is what constitutes "competent writing," since what is "good" will always be quite subjective.

I agree, this is a very subjective discussion (and if people knew what that "special something" was then we would probably have countless more bestselling stories).

I guess my input would be that I think it's good writing when the writer is careful with what they say and what they don't, especially in description. Sort of like an impressionist painting.

Good writing to me is writing that lives. You can feel it when you read, when the story flows and breathes and the characters and worlds come to life. The character's voices must be strong and individual. The worlds must be painted with the words, not statically constructed. The flow of the action should be smooth and transition well so the reader knows what is going on. The writer must know what story they want to tell, know their tools, and manipulate them to create.

There is no mathematical equation for it. Like you said, anyone can learn the laws of spelling and grammar. You only know good writing when it has already been created, and when you read it, by god you know it. You can feel it. I think it has a lot to do with how absorbed a writer is in the world and story they are creating. When they believe it, the can write so the reader will believe it too.

Good writing to me absolutely MUST balance the casual/conversational and formal tones. A piece of writing without any "flowery" (bad choice of word: elaborate, but not decadent) language can't evoke emotion and may sound juvenile. On the other hand, new writers who are confident in the language tend to make everything flowery. Characters who all speak in a composed tone are not only unbelievable and hard to sympathize with, but are downright eerie.

So don't go over-the-top with your intensity. Highlight certain emotions by using colorful similes and elaborate language, then tone down the rest into an easy-to-read conversational tone. Add slang in dialogue for bonus points.

Anybody can string a sentence together then get out the thesaurus

lol, I think the moment a writer reaches for a thesaurus is the moment you can cancel them out from being a good writer. A thesaurus is only really practical for a crossword puzzle.

I think the most important thing about writing is that you fulfill whatever purpose you're writing for. If you're writing to tell a story, you need to make sure you tell the story (as in, make sure the characters are believable and that the plot is actually developed).

In the case of amateur vns, the number of ellipses seems to be a good indication of the quality of writing. then again, perhaps that just my impression after reading certain stories...

KimiYoriBaka wrote:

Anybody can string a sentence together then get out the thesaurus

lol, I think the moment a writer reaches for a thesaurus is the moment you can cancel them out from being a good writer. A thesaurus is only really practical for a crossword puzzle.

I'm afraid that I must severely disagree with this statement. There are times when a word just doesn't work in the sentence and nothing is coming to mind. It is an incredibly useful book, if used sparingly. When you try to beautify every single word you come across, then all you are going to do is confuse the reader.

Personally, I don't have any particular viewpoint towards "good" writing. If it does what it is supposed to do with the target audience, it works.

KimiYoriBaka wrote: In the case of amateur vns, the number of ellipses seems to be a good indication of the quality of writing. then again, perhaps that just my impression after reading certain stories...

The ellipses are to copy the feel of Japanese writing. In 90% of cases, this is a bad idea, but it can be done in a way that isn't horribly awkward in English.

pondrthis wrote:

KimiYoriBaka wrote: In the case of amateur vns, the number of ellipses seems to be a good indication of the quality of writing. then again, perhaps that just my impression after reading certain stories...

The ellipses are to copy the feel of Japanese writing. In 90% of cases, this is a bad idea, but it can be done in a way that isn't horribly awkward in English.

Well, sometimes ellipses are needed. Shy characters practically require them.

EzzyAlpha wrote:

pondrthis wrote:

KimiYoriBaka wrote: In the case of amateur vns, the number of ellipses seems to be a good indication of the quality of writing. then again, perhaps that just my impression after reading certain stories...

The ellipses are to copy the feel of Japanese writing. In 90% of cases, this is a bad idea, but it can be done in a way that isn't horribly awkward in English.

Well, sometimes ellipses are needed. Shy characters practically require them.

Either that or my mother is featured as one of the characters.

She ALWAYS uses ellipses when speaking via text, but she is NOT shy.

On to the actual topic, good writing to me is someone who can write with character, even in the narrative. Someone who has a destinct style. For VN's I also appreciate them to give quirks to their characters, and not just make their characters defined by their profession or hobby, IE the Jock, the Doctor, the Nerd, etc.

Good writers have good control over words. An amateur writer simply puts words on a page without another thought, while a good writer carefully picks every word to try to express thier ideas in the way they want. They also have good control over economy (only using needed words), directness, detail, and voice.

Aaaah yes, word economy. That is something I have yet to master.

Same here. It just kinda feels natural to be a bit wordy when you're talking, but then when you look back at what you wrote you notice there are a whole bunch of words that weren't needed.

At least you get to forego economy (to an extent) when writing dialogue

Yes.... especially if you are writing a character who tends to be needlessly wordy. I like to feature one or two of those so that I can let loose and not restrict myself so much, but then I have to include some people who speak laconically to contrast so it doesn't just look like bad writing.

My dilemma... the character whose point of view in which the story is written is the wordy sort. >O<