AWESOMEcurry nochi rice wrote:equation
Time > Effort = Kill
Time < Effort = don't kill...
I find killing the character that players wanted the most, to be, ENJOYING.. XD
or you just want to screw the players gameplay by killing a "connecting/(note, potential heroine and source of jealousy) off then the heroine becomes guilty of lalalalala.. ARGHHH.. also try killing a character when the player is on scene... like he/she sees all the CQC melee, slashing, bloodshed.... and get him traumatize and making him choose another heroine hich he thinks wouldn't die, but in truth.. dies... I really want to work on a programmed mechanism for that... XD
Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
Forum rules
Ren'Py specific questions should be posted in the Ren'Py Questions and Annoucements forum, not here.
Ren'Py specific questions should be posted in the Ren'Py Questions and Annoucements forum, not here.
- azureXtwilight
- Megane Procrastinator
- Posts: 4118
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:54 am
- Completed: Fantasia series (ROT and ROTA), Doppleganger: Dawn of The Inverted Soul, a2 (a due), Time Labyrinth
- Projects: At Regime's End
- Organization: Memento-Mori VNs, Team Sleepyhead
- Location: Yogyakarta, Indonesia.
- Contact:
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
- Sexo Grammaticus
- Regular
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:54 am
- Projects: human instrumentality and vocals section
- Location: butts
- Contact:
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
This seems like a terrible 'equation'. If you have more time than effort, kill your character, and if you don't have enough time, don't kill them? That doesn't make any sense to me. You're essentially saying that the solution to being lazy and not caring enough about your characters is to just kill them off for some cheap drama - the Joss Whedon Syndrome I was talking about earlier. You're creating the sort of precedent for your stories where once you run out of ideas or arcs with a character, rather than re-evaluate that character, you're just going to 'lol kill' them and move on. That's not a place you want to send yourself as a writer.Time > Effort = Kill
Time < Effort = don't kill...
i have no signature and i must obscure game reference
- curry nochi rice
- Miko-Class Veteran
- Posts: 746
- Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:12 am
- Projects: Delicatessen, Whom to Notice, Start of Something, Love Sorcery
- Organization: Circle Cosine
- IRC Nick: Curry
- Skype: after.curry.rice
- itch: project-rothera
- Contact:
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
Sexo Grammaticus wrote:This seems like a terrible 'equation'. If you have more time than effort, kill your character, and if you don't have enough time, don't kill them? That doesn't make any sense to me. You're essentially saying that the solution to being lazy and not caring enough about your characters is to just kill them off for some cheap drama - the Joss Whedon Syndrome I was talking about earlier. You're creating the sort of precedent for your stories where once you run out of ideas or arcs with a character, rather than re-evaluate that character, you're just going to 'lol kill' them and move on. That's not a place you want to send yourself as a writer.Time > Effort = Kill
Time < Effort = don't kill...
I know.. it's just hypothetical... and its for trolling... hehehe... I would only kill a character if... argghh.. seriously, I don't want to kill any of my characters right now, except for the "extreme jealousy" part/cliche/trope///arghh. Yes.. I admit.. I want to troll with my players.. and it won't be used for some cheap drama.
BTW azure, what anime did that yan-yan girl come from?
- OtomeWeekend
- Eileen-Class Veteran
- Posts: 1087
- Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:29 am
- Location: Somewhere seaside
- Contact:
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
OOT: @currynochirice: Is that Aigis of Persona 3, your avatar I mean?
"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong." ---Mahatma Gandhi
I no longer use this account. Please refer to my new account, enta if you want to contact me. Thank you.
I no longer use this account. Please refer to my new account, enta if you want to contact me. Thank you.
- curry nochi rice
- Miko-Class Veteran
- Posts: 746
- Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:12 am
- Projects: Delicatessen, Whom to Notice, Start of Something, Love Sorcery
- Organization: Circle Cosine
- IRC Nick: Curry
- Skype: after.curry.rice
- itch: project-rothera
- Contact:
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
yup.. Aegis... Xd too bad I didn't get her in-time.. so long figma Aegis... ***wavesOtomeWeekend wrote:OOT: @currynochirice: Is that Aigis of Persona 3, your avatar I mean?
- Sexo Grammaticus
- Regular
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:54 am
- Projects: human instrumentality and vocals section
- Location: butts
- Contact:
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
Congrats with wasting your player's time and investment? While it's one thing to write towards an emotional reaction - a perfectly legitimate approach - outright admitting to 'trolling' your players isn't exactly something you want to admit to doing or even pursue. You start playing cheaply with them, they'll start treating you cheaply in return.curry nochi rice wrote:
I know.. it's just hypothetical... and its for trolling... hehehe... I would only kill a character if... argghh.. seriously, I don't want to kill any of my characters right now, except for the "extreme jealousy" part/cliche/trope///arghh. Yes.. I admit.. I want to troll with my players.. and it won't be used for some cheap drama.
i have no signature and i must obscure game reference
- Auro-Cyanide
- ssǝʇunoƆ ʇɹ∀
- Posts: 3059
- Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:02 am
- Completed: http://auro-cyanide.tumblr.com/visualnovels
- Projects: Athena
- Organization: Cyanide Tea
- Tumblr: auro-cyanide
- Deviantart: Auro-Cyanide
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
Depends what the point of the game is, doesn't it? Have you played SakeBento's Magical Cosplay Cafe? That kind of trolls the players a bit, but it is meant to be funny. I could see someone using death in parodies and other forms of humour. It isn't serious at all and isn't meant to be taken seriously. Cheap drama could also be amusing if done properly. Basically, everything doesn't have to be terribly straight laced and death can be used in a humorous context.Sexo Grammaticus wrote:Congrats with wasting your player's time and investment? While it's one thing to write towards an emotional reaction - a perfectly legitimate approach - outright admitting to 'trolling' your players isn't exactly something you want to admit to doing or even pursue. You start playing cheaply with them, they'll start treating you cheaply in return.curry nochi rice wrote:
I know.. it's just hypothetical... and its for trolling... hehehe... I would only kill a character if... argghh.. seriously, I don't want to kill any of my characters right now, except for the "extreme jealousy" part/cliche/trope///arghh. Yes.. I admit.. I want to troll with my players.. and it won't be used for some cheap drama.
-
- King of Lolies
- Posts: 4538
- Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:57 pm
- Completed: R.S.P
- Location: Bandung, West Java, Indonesia
- Contact:
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
I prefer her sister though... and if you are interested, I think you could still pre-order the figma.curry nochi rice wrote:yup.. Aegis... Xd too bad I didn't get her in-time.. so long figma Aegis... ***wavesOtomeWeekend wrote:OOT: @currynochirice: Is that Aigis of Persona 3, your avatar I mean?
"Double the princesses, quadruple the fun!" - Haken Browning (SRW-OG Endless Frontier)
DeviantArt Account
MoeToMecha Blog (under construction)
Lolicondria Blog (under construction) <- NSFW
DeviantArt Account
MoeToMecha Blog (under construction)
Lolicondria Blog (under construction) <- NSFW
- OtomeWeekend
- Eileen-Class Veteran
- Posts: 1087
- Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:29 am
- Location: Somewhere seaside
- Contact:
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
O_o? Actually when I ordered Akihiko's, Aegis' is no more available...I prefer her sister though... and if you are interested, I think you could still pre-order the figma.
On the other note, I also liked her sister than Aegis for some unknown reasons that all I can say is because I love her(did I confused you?)
Again, to AzurexTwilight-san, I'm sorry for the out of topic-ness again *bows*
Wait, talking about Persona 3, making a new conflict after someone's death is also a factor(like when hero died for the main plot of Persona FES) or to improve a useless(?) character, like when chidori died, Junpei matured a lot....he changed (a lot). a lot i mean that people who've played it will know(was kinda a long story and my mind can't translate the words in english X_X )
EDIT: I forgot to quote X_X
Last edited by OtomeWeekend on Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong." ---Mahatma Gandhi
I no longer use this account. Please refer to my new account, enta if you want to contact me. Thank you.
I no longer use this account. Please refer to my new account, enta if you want to contact me. Thank you.
- curry nochi rice
- Miko-Class Veteran
- Posts: 746
- Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:12 am
- Projects: Delicatessen, Whom to Notice, Start of Something, Love Sorcery
- Organization: Circle Cosine
- IRC Nick: Curry
- Skype: after.curry.rice
- itch: project-rothera
- Contact:
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
@LVUER and @Otome W.
I'm gonna forcibly buy from my friends that have both of them.. that would be many many years from now.. except if they do a re-run... XD
Anyway, you don't have to kill a character though, you can make them disappear from their lives just by making him/her disappear, or with consent, leave for a very very long journey, and for ze lolz... /ragequit character.
I'm gonna forcibly buy from my friends that have both of them.. that would be many many years from now.. except if they do a re-run... XD
Anyway, you don't have to kill a character though, you can make them disappear from their lives just by making him/her disappear, or with consent, leave for a very very long journey, and for ze lolz... /ragequit character.
- azureXtwilight
- Megane Procrastinator
- Posts: 4118
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:54 am
- Completed: Fantasia series (ROT and ROTA), Doppleganger: Dawn of The Inverted Soul, a2 (a due), Time Labyrinth
- Projects: At Regime's End
- Organization: Memento-Mori VNs, Team Sleepyhead
- Location: Yogyakarta, Indonesia.
- Contact:
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
Speaking of persona 3...
SHINJIRO's death actually was... A great death ._.
Last edited by azureXtwilight on Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
- OtomeWeekend
- Eileen-Class Veteran
- Posts: 1087
- Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:29 am
- Location: Somewhere seaside
- Contact:
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
shinji's death might be good, but i was disappointed. i thought he would be there till the end so i started doing icha kora with akihiko first and then ken goes "I'd kill you shinji" and bam! all efforts and stupidity resulted to nothing(and he was a good cook too!!!!) X((
EDIT: Thank LVUER for reminding me... >_>
Last edited by OtomeWeekend on Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong." ---Mahatma Gandhi
I no longer use this account. Please refer to my new account, enta if you want to contact me. Thank you.
I no longer use this account. Please refer to my new account, enta if you want to contact me. Thank you.
- Sexo Grammaticus
- Regular
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:54 am
- Projects: human instrumentality and vocals section
- Location: butts
- Contact:
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
Yeah it all depends on the context of the game. There's certainly nothing so 'sacred' about death to make it unusable in a humorous situation. It's that just I'm taking exception to the idea of 'trolling' your readers - which to me is not respecting the tone and plot of the work, and instead focusing on quick and easy anti-gratification, as it were. Certainly that's the point of some situations and some works, but I've more an issue with how overdone it is in works that are otherwise meant to be pretty straight laced. Basically a quick and easy death is becoming a crutch to a lot writers as a source of cheap and quick drama, or a handy end-of-arc solution when you've written yourself into a corner and are too lazy to give a character a proper ending. Some characters just have to die, true, but not just because you can't think of anything else to do with them.Auro-Cyanide wrote:
Depends what the point of the game is, doesn't it? Have you played SakeBento's Magical Cosplay Cafe? That kind of trolls the players a bit, but it is meant to be funny. I could see someone using death in parodies and other forms of humour. It isn't serious at all and isn't meant to be taken seriously. Cheap drama could also be amusing if done properly. Basically, everything doesn't have to be terribly straight laced and death can be used in a humorous context.
i have no signature and i must obscure game reference
-
- King of Lolies
- Posts: 4538
- Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:57 pm
- Completed: R.S.P
- Location: Bandung, West Java, Indonesia
- Contact:
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
Spoiler tag please. Who knows if there are people who haven't finished Persona 3 here.
"Double the princesses, quadruple the fun!" - Haken Browning (SRW-OG Endless Frontier)
DeviantArt Account
MoeToMecha Blog (under construction)
Lolicondria Blog (under construction) <- NSFW
DeviantArt Account
MoeToMecha Blog (under construction)
Lolicondria Blog (under construction) <- NSFW
Re: Erasing a character... and he never comes back.
I really like Sexo Grammaticus' point.
My opinion is: death in a VN is similar to in anime - if it works in anime, it will work in a VN. As a general rule.
I'm rambling. But in response to your example specifically - Volg in Requiem of the Abyss? (I'll admit I'm a fan of yours!) I thought that in some ways it fit very well. But I was really put off by one aspect of the game-play, not that it's a problem, it just didn't agree with me
Of course, this is all opinion! I simply felt it was out of place, and that there was unrealised potential to your scenario. That's all! I look forward to seeing other work from you, and the way you treat death in another scenario. I'd love to hear your opinion, or an example of the kind of death in a work that you felt worked well.
My opinion is: death in a VN is similar to in anime - if it works in anime, it will work in a VN. As a general rule.
Think Mai HiME, for example. If the death in that worked for you (before the tamer ending), you don't really want to make it - death - a big point; develop the characters, then remove them, and let the viewer/player decide whether or not they're effected by it.
The beauty of an anime is that often (when involving death in such ways) they don't necessarily need to sell the death - as long as some other intertwined plot with it is fine, it's still hooked the audience. And again, having a death and the way in which it's done should suit the genre.
Hellsing, for example, is clearly going to explore darker themes - such as death - in a serious way. FLCL, perhaps... not quite so much. Then there are things like Ghost in the Shell, matter of fact - probably the best way death should be treated in a mystery sort of way. Horror - completely different ball-game. Slice of life - there are so many ways this can be done, it just needs to be consistent.
Even as a complete out of the blue, death can be done well if it fits with the rest of the story - say you mean to have only one route with a death, as long as that route treats it appropriately and does not directly contradict actions before or after, using the death perhaps as a catalyst for further character development, etc, the death should be received quite well as part of the story.I'm rambling. But in response to your example specifically - Volg in Requiem of the Abyss? (I'll admit I'm a fan of yours!) I thought that in some ways it fit very well. But I was really put off by one aspect of the game-play, not that it's a problem, it just didn't agree with me
on the different routes, there was always the one way to come out from the confrontation with Thanatos relatively unscathed
and I thought that this limited various storylines - Volg's death being one of them. It seemed his death was quickly forgotten, in a rather surgical, business-like way - which, ironically appeared to be the total opposite of what Volg was meant to be. Of course, this meant the remainder of the route fit in fine, but it was very clear on my last playthrough that some routes were simply better thought through. In comparison to others, Volg's ending made one think that this was not a well executed death.Of course, this is all opinion! I simply felt it was out of place, and that there was unrealised potential to your scenario. That's all! I look forward to seeing other work from you, and the way you treat death in another scenario. I'd love to hear your opinion, or an example of the kind of death in a work that you felt worked well.
Last edited by SVENSPER on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users