Questions: Single vs Multiple girls and Adult Content?

[Counter Arts]

Well my minor is going to be "Sexuality, Marriages, and Family" so here's my take. Well, more like my prof's definitions.

pornography -- normativeness & utility violence "deprived of unique human character" or "depicted as sexual playthings"

erotica -- explicit sexual depictions; no subjugation, coercion, or violence.

So I think you guys are talking about erotica more than pornography unless someone is making a "dark" game with pornographic elements.

[Quin]

I'll refrain from commenting on this now, other than to say that the most recent turn in the conversation reminds me very much of mikey's excellent article, Game Recognition Handbook. While the article avoids making judgments on the value of various categories of games (which I'm sure was a conscious decision on mikey's part, and I feel it's also a wise decision), it shows that there's so much more to consider about a game than whether it happens to show nudity and/or sex.

For additional considerations, I'd also point to mikey's article about the game Artificial Girl 2, which I interpret as expressing (among other things) how even a game with considerable sexual content is not necessarily a "bad" game or one with no appreciable value.

[RedSlash]

Well how about Mosaics? Do you guys feel adding mosaics like they do in Japanese Bishoujo games creates a more tasteful adult scene? Or just leave it uncensored?

I believe the mosaics are there for lawful purposes, not because it makes adult scenes more tasteful. Therefore, mosaics are quite irrelevant to this discussion.

But as discussed, if you need to satisfy the major population, you'll prob need two versions: a 18+ and an all-ages, cause you do weed out alot of people with just an 18+ version.

[Guest]

Let's check in with our IANAL legal team!

The Miller Test is the usual way the US courts define obscenity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test

Given that your game will likely have a plot and characters and romance and stuff, you are all over literary merit. Heck, if your nudes are nicely-drawn, you're probably also all over artistic merit.

If I were you and a US citizen, I'd feel free to include nudity.

It's worth noting that nudity (and cursing and violence and controversal themes like religion or politics) are potentially audience-limiting. They are also audience-defining, though. It's like when you draw a comic-book cover with a dude wearing his underwear on the outside. Each potential consumer says either "Awesome, a superhero" or "Oh, I hate superhero comics". Your overt choice of putting in nudity means you are aiming at a specific audience, but if you're making that audience happy and it's the audience you want to reach, you've done no wrong.

The worst you could do is try it and then remove it if people tell you it's not working.

As Blue Lemma suggested, I think it's best to be true to your artistic vision vis-a-vis adult content and pay attention to audience feedback. I also agree with most folks that mosaics are foolish.

(Pornography vs. erotica are pretty arbitrarily defined from person to person. Good sense indicates that if you think you're writing pornography, you probably are and vice-versa.)

[musical74]

I agree on the mosiacs...

Been wondering where you were, Okatu Dash! Hope everything is OK? And, if you are seeing things on Pytom's avatar, I am too....maybe we need to get our eyes checked?

I think BL's got the best advice so far...we all can help define what you make...but it is your game, and in the end, it's how you feel about the game that makes it worth making or not.

[RedSlash]

The Miller Test is the usual way the US courts define obscenity:

I would define obscenity as this. If the majority of the people strongly finds something offsensive, then it would be considered obscene. Stuff like child porn, rape, etc.. I highly doubt YuMMz intention is to offend alot of people, so I would say whatever YuMMz's creation is, it is likely not to be obscene.

It looks like PyTom specifically crafted his avatar to inject certain messages into our brain. Those who can see the sign properly may be transported into a restricted space where they are .... ahhh..... ahhh....... heeelp meee!!

[Otaku Dash]

I agree on the mosiacs...

Been wondering where you were, Okatu Dash! Hope everything is OK? And, if you are seeing things on Pytom's avatar, I am too....maybe we need to get our eyes checked?

I think BL's got the best advice so far...we all can help define what you make...but it is your game, and in the end, it's how you feel about the game that makes it worth making or not.

I'm ok thanks ^^ I've just been busy with life.... been improving my math grade for Uni and I got a girlfriend so that means less posts.... well I do come to the net more often as she is on England... (so I can speak to her) but I get kinda busy talking to her and work that I don't get to post as much lol

You saw it too? O_O then I'm not mad! *does a small happy dance * Although I must say I feel tempted to Pm and ask Pytom about it....

As for this.... teh choice you make will limit the audience that will comply to your story..... as in life there will people who will like you adn others that don't. But after all it's you life so you do what you wish with it... this kinda appys to the projects you make. There will be bpeople saying "OH AWSOME! That art really fitted the mood of the story.." while others will say "GACK! Hentai addict! Perv!!" But in the end, it's YOUR project, not anyone elses.... you know what you did and have to be open minded upon the reaction of other people

[gekiganwing]

One of the things I've talked about for a long time is my take on "perception of shounen [male oriented] versus perception of shoujo [girl oriented]." Here goes.

In my *opinion*, a lot of people see shounen as shallow or even stupid. There's a lot of anime series that can be cynically dismissed as "violent cartoons for boys." (Especially if the person saying this is neither young nor male.) I've seen a lot of series that aren't original or thoughtful, and that put too much emphasis on being cool or commercial. And yet I like the shounen genre. There's lots of standout titles. Lots of ones that defy stereotypes.

And in my opinion, people are quick to praise shoujo. I can understand why. In a world where overhyped shounen is common, shoujo seems rare and refreshing. Few explosions, little toilet humor... and even if you compare fanservice to bishounen-watching, the latter seems a lot more subtle and sophisticated. So do I like shoujo? Somewhat. There's a few good examples and a few that just don't cut it. But I have this nagging thought that keeps telling me how good it is. I've tried to convince myself that it isn't the greatest thing in the world, and I've tried to tell myself that if I was at all intelligent, I'd watch serious, artistic shoujo and nothing else.

So... if you're planning to make a homebrew game, what do I recommend? Try to find a logical way to put in elements or ideas from shoujo. I think a lot of people would respect that.

(I'm preparing to update my site for the first time in over a month, so this might show up in my next article/rant.)

[YuMMz]

Wow, thanks again for all the feedback. In response to ShiraiJunichi I would say that part of my purpose to include nudity in the first place would be to arouse. But another purpose was to give the player a sense of completeness as I am always frustrated when scenes fade out and then fade in later.

I will probably include nudity in my game since most of the scenes are already drawn. I may play around and see how the game plays without the nudity and make two versions. I may even provide me with an opportunity to gauge interest in both versions and see how I would like to make my next game.

Again, thanks for all the responses! They have been helpful.

[monele]

I'm not sure this has been asked yet but... what kind of games do *you* like and do you expect from them ? You say you want these scenes to arouse... so there has to be a source for that will, right ? I'll suppose (forgive me if I'm wrong) that it's because you like to be aroused by these scenes when you play other games, and you'd like to reflect this feeling to players of your own game. If you find it frustrating when these scenes fade out before anything "interesting" has happened, I doubt you will be able to let them go when creating your own game. Unless maybe you completely remove any hint of sexuality, leading to the absence of any unwanted fade out.

Hmm, I guess this is another "do a game you'd enjoy playing" post ^^; *feels redundant now*

[DaFool]

Sorry to resurrect this thread... (perhaps it's also a good time to move to hentai forum)

My answer to this question:

For yaruge style games, a single girl seems to fit, because
1.) H-games require better drawings, and having multiple girls would make the workload next to impossible. (according to my own skill level versus the standard I am aiming for)
2.) You could actually write multiple sexual scenarios which help define the love interest's personality better (as well as the PC's) depending on what she's willing to do.

If you're going to have a good shot of finishing, you'll need to keep your own entertainment and amusement as a top priority and worry about other people's individual tastes later.

I have to admit, one of the factors in finishing NT was the huge increase in testosterone I had during the time of production, enough to "reach the heavens." (I was lucky that there were no anti-spirals around).

The all-ages ideas... well they all suffer from being treated like second-class citizens, since there is no - ahem - motivation to get them done.

If it wasn't meant to arouse, then why is it there?

As I mentioned elsewhere, all those dreams since puberty need a creative outlet.

But an old argument resurfaces... gameplay versus story. I have a story planned out which is 'epic' (oh no!), but at the same time, I want gameplay during the ero scenes so that the player can determine the order of events. It's generally agreed that story-story-story-gameplay-story-story-story generally don't mix...I'm afraid it might be the same for a yaruge. (Although, this is opposite from NT in that while NT was plot:gameplay and sex:story, this will be plot:story and sex:gameplay)

[themocaw]

Regarding mosaicing: keep in mind, if you plan to host your game on DL site or something similar, that their forums are in Japan, and according to Japanese law, genitalia MUST be mosaiced or otherwise obscured. There are doujinshi that take "obeying the letter of the law" to a ridiculous level (i.e. the "censor" bar that is about as big as a toothpick,) but something, at least, needs to be done.

[rocket]

please note too that previous lax censorship will no longer be tolerated. Heisei democracy has a good write up on the matter.