Do you care?
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Ren'Py specific questions should be posted in the Ren'Py Questions and Annoucements forum, not here.
Ren'Py specific questions should be posted in the Ren'Py Questions and Annoucements forum, not here.
Do you care?
One question that's been on my mind is what the general opinion is on two things in games - author's notes and background information, specifically those that aren't in the game's main gameplay, but somewhere in bonus sections and readmes.
Do you care for such making-of comments, do you want to know what the ideas were behind the games, or is it better for you if you just have the piece "as is"? Are people generally interested in the design process, what ideas were used and do they care for deleted scenes? I'm asking because I want to know, but also because I tend to throw away a lot of things, as well as because as a game maker I feel that most production processes and authors' explanations are very similar. But many players aren't makers, so...
And, do you generally want background material (there is always some) that is not in the game? Character intros, world information, that kind of thing. Will you read those before playing?
Do you care for such making-of comments, do you want to know what the ideas were behind the games, or is it better for you if you just have the piece "as is"? Are people generally interested in the design process, what ideas were used and do they care for deleted scenes? I'm asking because I want to know, but also because I tend to throw away a lot of things, as well as because as a game maker I feel that most production processes and authors' explanations are very similar. But many players aren't makers, so...
And, do you generally want background material (there is always some) that is not in the game? Character intros, world information, that kind of thing. Will you read those before playing?
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I'd say yes. I'd read the author's notes sometimes even before playing in order to get an idea of what to expect in the game and to see if I'd be interested in reading through at all.
I liked the author's and translators' notes in narcissu because they seem to tell a lot about the people behind them.
As for background info... I don't really care much about them unless they lead me to another related game or sidestory or something. Maybe if the game is rpg-esque I'd like some unlockable world and character info as extras which can be accessed anytime.
I liked the author's and translators' notes in narcissu because they seem to tell a lot about the people behind them.
As for background info... I don't really care much about them unless they lead me to another related game or sidestory or something. Maybe if the game is rpg-esque I'd like some unlockable world and character info as extras which can be accessed anytime.
How do you make your games? I see. Thank you for the prompt replies, but it is my considered opinion that you're doing it wrong inefficiently because I am a perfushenal professional. Do it my way this way and we can all ascend VN Nirvana together while allowing me to stroke my ego you will improve much faster. Also, please don't forget to thank me for this constructive critique or I will cry and bore you to death respond appropriately with a tl;dr rant discourse of epic adequately lengthy proportions. - Sarcasm Veiled in Euphemism: Secrets of Forum Civility by lordcloudx (Coming soon to an online ebook near you.)
I do
When I downloaded Gakuen Redux, the first thing that I did was reading the entire explaination of the school system in the readme file.
I am a fan of these type of extras, the author notes in Narcissu, Wings (and the new ones in the edited version), The pre-production CGs in Princess of Fire, the deleted scene in metropolitan Blues, and the Naze-nani in When I Rule the World, all of those are thing that I like.
Now, a different approach are the TIPS of the Higurashi series, I like those too.
But then, I am probably a bookworm.
I am a fan of these type of extras, the author notes in Narcissu, Wings (and the new ones in the edited version), The pre-production CGs in Princess of Fire, the deleted scene in metropolitan Blues, and the Naze-nani in When I Rule the World, all of those are thing that I like.
Now, a different approach are the TIPS of the Higurashi series, I like those too.
But then, I am probably a bookworm.
Well, my main interested is usually focused on the kind of notes that tell me how the game was created, telling me weird things about how some ideas came to life and such, even though i don't usually read them before i played the game at least once.
Another thing that usually i burn to see are notes from the artist, if i really liked the illlustrations(because i can steal some techniques^_^;;)
I really enjoyed reading the notes at the end of Metropolitan blues, if that can be of any help...
Another thing that usually i burn to see are notes from the artist, if i really liked the illlustrations(because i can steal some techniques^_^;;)
I really enjoyed reading the notes at the end of Metropolitan blues, if that can be of any help...
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Author's notes and making-of comments I like, because they give me an idea about the creative process, a peek into the author's mind. I personally love that, and it may even help me understanding the author's intention if my thick skull didn't let it through while playing. :)
Background infos I don't usually read before the game, since I'm afraid to spoil some of the fun (e.g. introduction to the characters and their relationships). After playing through I sometimes do read them, sometimes not. I basically like to have all relevant information provided during the game.
All that strictly IMHO. I think there's as many opinions on this as there's players. Maybe more. :)
Edit: Deleted scenes? Sure! Especially if they come along with an explanation why they were deleted.
Background infos I don't usually read before the game, since I'm afraid to spoil some of the fun (e.g. introduction to the characters and their relationships). After playing through I sometimes do read them, sometimes not. I basically like to have all relevant information provided during the game.
All that strictly IMHO. I think there's as many opinions on this as there's players. Maybe more. :)
Edit: Deleted scenes? Sure! Especially if they come along with an explanation why they were deleted.
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Brief descriptions of the game making process can be interesting. But if they get verbose, it can be quite boring. Only tell something of the process if it's unusual, or interesting.
More of what I like to see are things that were cut from the final production. Things like deleted scenes, or unused art or music.
Cultural notes, or other informative tid-bits can be very nice, as they explain things the player might not understand otherwise. In anime, I really appreciate it when an aspect of Japanese culture is explained instead of edited out (though, it's annoying sometimes if it's too frequent...)
I also like in-depth things I might have missed to be explained. For example, how Mary's age is determined in "Moonlight Walks" was pretty neat- but it's something I wouldn't have thought about on my own.
Though, it's kind of nice to have gems like that hidden in the forums, so you have to dig them up, as opposed to just being told.
More of what I like to see are things that were cut from the final production. Things like deleted scenes, or unused art or music.
Cultural notes, or other informative tid-bits can be very nice, as they explain things the player might not understand otherwise. In anime, I really appreciate it when an aspect of Japanese culture is explained instead of edited out (though, it's annoying sometimes if it's too frequent...)
I also like in-depth things I might have missed to be explained. For example, how Mary's age is determined in "Moonlight Walks" was pretty neat- but it's something I wouldn't have thought about on my own.
Though, it's kind of nice to have gems like that hidden in the forums, so you have to dig them up, as opposed to just being told.
It sounds so much like DVD bonuses . And I love these. The usual process is watching the movie once, then watching the short bonuses (deleted scenes, making of), and then watching the movie with the comment track. To me it feels so much more complete, and it gives you something to chew on even after you're done with the main course.
I don't think it would be any different with a game. I'd love to see deleted scenes, just because they're more stuff to see and they might have interesting ideas in them. A making of could be nice as long as it's not *just* text maybe... (DVD bonuses show you parts of the movie they refer to). Commentaries included during the game would be nice on a replay (could make up for a lack of new scenes when you replay and would definately give an interesting insight on the game). And then there's the silly stuff : out of character scenes, bloopers (why not? it's been done!), and whatever you can come up with .
And if these things come with a reedition, you could even add scenes to make some long version of the game (as they did with Lord of the Rings for example).
I don't think it would be any different with a game. I'd love to see deleted scenes, just because they're more stuff to see and they might have interesting ideas in them. A making of could be nice as long as it's not *just* text maybe... (DVD bonuses show you parts of the movie they refer to). Commentaries included during the game would be nice on a replay (could make up for a lack of new scenes when you replay and would definately give an interesting insight on the game). And then there's the silly stuff : out of character scenes, bloopers (why not? it's been done!), and whatever you can come up with .
And if these things come with a reedition, you could even add scenes to make some long version of the game (as they did with Lord of the Rings for example).
I am a bit surprised, so everyone likes to have such bonuses... Very insteresting...
But, if someone doesn't include any making-of things, it's not a drawback, is it? Still, with lots of games having a few extras of this sort, is it disappointing if a larger game won't have them?
Well, I made the interviews, bloopers, deleted videos and author's notes in the RT extra basically just for fun, as a one-time idea, but it really seems to be a valid design point - the mentioned naze nani and the various authors' notes and commentaries...monele wrote:And then there's the silly stuff : out of character scenes, bloopers (why not? it's been done!)
But, if someone doesn't include any making-of things, it's not a drawback, is it? Still, with lots of games having a few extras of this sort, is it disappointing if a larger game won't have them?
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I think it's great. I was surprised about the new games having author's notes but I really enjoyed reading them. I love extras and I love to do the "author's notes" thing myself whenever I work on my projects. It's like others have said , dvd extras are nice too. It always annoy me if there aren't enough extras on a dvd and / or worse , the extras don't really make sense and doesn't fit in with what the main feature / movie is about.
I disagree about leaving extras out of larger games , in fact , I think larger games need extras even more than smaller games. Especially games like KAORI (sp.?) where it's not always clear , even as you're playing the game , what is going on.
I disagree about leaving extras out of larger games , in fact , I think larger games need extras even more than smaller games. Especially games like KAORI (sp.?) where it's not always clear , even as you're playing the game , what is going on.
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as side note. I'd also enjoy a short parody of the original work as an extra with zany graphics especially with staff input like the outtakes in the voice dubbing of lunar 2 psx version.
Like maybe put in some haruhi style commentary in-between the normal conversations for a serious game.
Like maybe put in some haruhi style commentary in-between the normal conversations for a serious game.
How do you make your games? I see. Thank you for the prompt replies, but it is my considered opinion that you're doing it wrong inefficiently because I am a perfushenal professional. Do it my way this way and we can all ascend VN Nirvana together while allowing me to stroke my ego you will improve much faster. Also, please don't forget to thank me for this constructive critique or I will cry and bore you to death respond appropriately with a tl;dr rant discourse of epic adequately lengthy proportions. - Sarcasm Veiled in Euphemism: Secrets of Forum Civility by lordcloudx (Coming soon to an online ebook near you.)
I don't think the size of a game determines the need for bonuses. I don't think the content does either. They're called "bonuses" for a reason. It's about the author wanting to give you a little something more to lenghten your experience, but maybe in ways they couldn't use in the main game.
The most important thing is that it shouldn't be *part* of the game as in "not needed to enjoy it fully". It's extra, separated, additional.
Hence, if bonuses are not included, there is no problem, since the game should stand on its own. And if it's a large game, as in "long", isn't that already good enough ? Of course it's better if there are bonuses but I don't think it's mandatory in any way ^^.
In conclusion, mikey, I don't think you should worry about these. Do them if you have the time and the will to. I see no reason why they should be badly received. It's a gift given by the author! One doesn't refuses such gifts :p.
The most important thing is that it shouldn't be *part* of the game as in "not needed to enjoy it fully". It's extra, separated, additional.
Hence, if bonuses are not included, there is no problem, since the game should stand on its own. And if it's a large game, as in "long", isn't that already good enough ? Of course it's better if there are bonuses but I don't think it's mandatory in any way ^^.
In conclusion, mikey, I don't think you should worry about these. Do them if you have the time and the will to. I see no reason why they should be badly received. It's a gift given by the author! One doesn't refuses such gifts :p.
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I agree. They're bonus. Just something extra. Personally, I don't expect to find bonuses at the end. So if they don't appear, I don't even think about it. And in a way, they can even kind of detract. It's kind of like seeing how a magic trick is done. You see a trick, and there's a feel of magic to it. Then you see how it was done. You understand the trick better, but it's also lost that magical feel. Extras can sometimes be like that- I think particularly for serious works. It's kind of nice for the game to end when it ends- and not five minutes after it ends, after you finished reading the author's notes.monele wrote:They're called "bonuses" for a reason
That's actually a very good analogy, and often this works for me like that. It's nice to have some mystery to things. I don't mean open endings or multiple meanings, just the "as is" nature - you have a game, and you play it.ShiraiJunichi wrote:And in a way, they can even kind of detract. It's kind of like seeing how a magic trick is done. You see a trick, and there's a feel of magic to it. Then you see how it was done. You understand the trick better, but it's also lost that magical feel. Extras can sometimes be like that- I think particularly for serious works.
Many of the very old 80's game classics were made by just one person, and after reading several making-ofs, it kind of loses its magic, even the cult, sometimes...
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I see authors notes and the like the same way I see commentary tracks: as a separate work, about the first, that needs to be judged on its own merits.
I think they can be a good way of putting things into context, or pointing out things that the player wouldn't otherwise notice. (IIRC, it was River Trap that had some of the original photos the background is based on.) But they can also be filled with boring mineuta about the production process... that doesn't interest me.
What I think is most important is that the original work stand alone without the commentary.
I think they can be a good way of putting things into context, or pointing out things that the player wouldn't otherwise notice. (IIRC, it was River Trap that had some of the original photos the background is based on.) But they can also be filled with boring mineuta about the production process... that doesn't interest me.
What I think is most important is that the original work stand alone without the commentary.
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