Several questions needing answers.lol

[OtomeWeekend]

I know I'm always asking questions, *bows* but I really need this, this time! >:3

I was making the sprites for the VN I'm currently writing and I realized some pointers that I believe need enlightenment:

1. Should I be really doing the sprites even without the story being finished?
2. I was writing the stuff, but I myself is starting to feel its boring, what should i do? >.<
3. Relating to question 2; I started to feel that I don't have the shot to be a writer, but because of what happened before, I'm scared to get a co-writer. Any advices?
4. I'm scared to post my WIP progress in the WIP section but I am certainly heeding for help. Should I take the courage and post it up afterall? T.T





I have too many stupid questions, I'm so sorry Q.Q

[Aleema]

1. Should I be really doing the sprites even without the story being finished?

YES. There are a ton of advantages of having the characters when you write. Knowing what they look like exactly will actually add an in-depth quality to your writing. Otherwise, all the visuals will be written descriptions, which -- once you do have the art -- will probably compete or contradict to what the player sees. It also will help prevents any disconnects where when the art comes up, the player immediately recognizes A,B,C qualities but the main character says nothing. (The sprite has wings or looks really sad, but the MC ignores this.) In general: very good idea to at least have mock-ups of what the chars look like in your game, not just external references or a mental picture. The actual product may change and mess up your writing. And in a lot of cases, will cause you to be disappointed that you cannot match your mental image when you finally do draw (or commission) the characters.

I was writing the stuff, but I myself is starting to feel its boring, what should i do? >.<

Put the characters exactly where they don't want to be. Universal rule for writing an engaging story.
Also, be a good self-editor and realize when what you're righting has zero point to it, or is counterproductive. If you don't learn something about the characters involved, progress the story or relationship (or set either up for payoff later), then cut it.

Relating to question 2; I started to feel that I don't have the shot to be a writer, but because of what happened before, I'm scared to get a co-writer. Any advices?

I don't consider myself a good writer either ... But someone needs to do it. Being critical on yourself will probably help you improve. And like they say, it takes a million words before you're a good writer. SO KEEP TYPING WORDS! You'll break a million some time and be a good writer.

If you get a co-writer, remember that they're working with you for free, give them some creative control (otherwise, they're just fanfiction writers for your work, and who says they're fans enough to want to in the first place?), and ... be nice towards their ideas. ;_;

I'm scared to post my WIP progress in the WIP section but I am certainly heeding for help. Should I take the courage and post it up afterall? T.T

Why? Embarrassed or scared of critique?

[tigerkidde]

Don't be too hard on yourself when seeking knowledge, these are not stupid questions at all.

I would say one of the most important things is to have bite-size goals, whoops, I'm about to go on a tangent.

For question 1, personally I would hold off until the story has reached a conclusion or breaking point (where you could conclude an episode). You may find that there are some expressions, costumes, and/or locations that you won't use as a result of fleshing out your story. And while you'll have a lot of assets at your disposal, you may start to feel like you're forcing them into your project, rather letting your project dictate what kind of art it needs.
(i.e. that generic character that has a few lines may not need 25 expressions ready-to-go)

For question 2, one of the most dangerous things about writing (to me) is to stop or break too long from it. Once you do, you return to a writing, sometimes enjoy re-reading what you've written, making a handful of touch-ups here and there, but ultimately, falling out of the groove, the flow of what you were writing before, and may end up wanting to start something new or start over. Sometimes spicing it up for giggles can stoke the flame of an old piece (and then you go back for reals to brush it up).
(i.e. Superman is having dinner with Lex Luther and takes a bite out of his sandwich. Something is odd. He peels back the bread only to discover a light glaze of kryptonite on the lower slice.)

Can't answer 3.

But on number 4, most folks in general can benefit from group support. Getting your project out there in a public tangible form to receive feedback and potentially refuel your drive to progress is important and other purple monkey dishwashing stuff.

[HotLimit]

1. Yes, doing sprites first is fine. Personally, the only games I have the motivation to go on with are those with images. When I put the time into drawing all that stuff, I have no choice but to follow through with the story.

2. It doesn't matter, someone might find it interesting. (though make the distinction between whether you think it's boring, or you've just gotten bored with it - it's common for someone to get tired of something they've worked on a long time)

3. You just have to put your plot outline out there and see if anyone likes it. Know that even if someone likes it, they'll probably take it in a direction you don't want them to.

4. I would finish a short version of the story (even without the sprites or whatever) and put that up. Nobody is going to slam you unless you ask them to.

[Sapphi]

I would just like to stress that while you should, as Aleema suggested, have sketches/mocks of your characters for your own reference, you should not spend gobs of hours drawing sprites for a piece of writing that isn't finished. If you drop your project or even change an aspect of a character this has devastating results. Made this mistake, do not want to repeat it again. Lots of wasted effort. Well, I can't really call it wasted since it gave me practice, but for the amount of time I put in, that's how it feels. I'm trying to play it safe this time around, so I haven't made any finished sprites for my current project, but I do have about a gazillion small sketches of the characters (I doodle in class... I might have to scan my notes as bonus content).

Also, while I think it's helpful to know what your characters look like before you write about them, it's also important to know their personality before you draw them, and for me, I tend to "discover" their personality as I write (and rewrite) the story. So I think it can work both ways.

[Sexo Grammaticus]

Also, be a good self-editor

Most of the advice so far in this thread ranges from the good to the 'well duh' but I thought I'd point out this as being something I really don't agree with. You should never edit your own work - you're far too involved and personally attached to your work (and if you're not, why are you writing it) to make any worthwhile editing contribution. Your priority is plot and words on the page - let an outside editor worry about editing, otherwise you'll end up in a constant spiral of self-correction and double-guessing everything you do.

[Aleema]

"Never" is a strong word, so I definitely disagree with that. Never touching your work after you've written is dangerous, since it leaves the composition in someone else's hands entirely, and it also gives your editor considerably more work when you can just glance back and catch your typos. In fact, what you should do, is completely rewrite everything you've just written. 9/10 it makes the scene a lot better. You'll only remember the best parts of what you've just written, and you'll cut out all the fat.

I do agree about always getting an external editor. Your eyes cannot catch most of your own mistakes since you know how lines are supposed to read, not how they actually read. Always get an actual editor before releasing your work.

But never self-edit? What you should say is never release a game on self-editing alone, and warn against the urge to change everything before getting 2nd opinions. I really don't see people crippling with insecurity because they wanted to correct their typos. You can have a dedicated editor AND look over your own stuff, too. Act like a reader, not a writer or editor, don't look at it for a while, etc. Basic tips.

All that said, that's not really what I meant by "self-edit". I think the better term I should have used was "self-censor". Catch yourself when you're rambling. That's advice given to OtomeWeekend, not everyone, because she said she feared she was writing boring scenes.

[OtomeWeekend]

Put the characters exactly where they don't want to be. Universal rule for writing an engaging story.
Also, be a good self-editor and realize when what you're righting has zero point to it, or is counterproductive. If you don't learn something about the characters involved, progress the story or relationship (or set either up for payoff later), then cut it.

I'm sorry for being a super dense stupid person with not another stupid question.lol but "what do you mean by putting my characters in exactly where they don't want to be?"

I don't consider myself a good writer either ... But someone needs to do it. Being critical on yourself will probably help you improve. And like they say, it takes a million words before you're a good writer. SO KEEP TYPING WORDS! You'll break a million some time and be a good writer.

This. I've been typing like crazy then I'd realize my story is stupid, I delete it, again and re-write it then never finish re-writing it. I dunno if I'd improve at all. X.X

If you get a co-writer, remember that they're working with you for free, give them some creative control (otherwise, they're just fanfiction writers for your work, and who says they're fans enough to want to in the first place?), and ... be nice towards their ideas. ;_;

The case that happened between my previous co-writer is nothing related to writing stuff. It was in real life related and I am a fan of her writing that I wouldn't even actually bother to go against what she wrote x_x

Why? Embarrassed or scared of critique?

Both. I do am scared that someone would throw tomatoes on me(though i know lemmasoft people won't do it) and embarrassed at the same time. I'm indeed open for critiques for further improvement but at the same time, there are times I'm scared that no one replies in my wip even for a critique or a word like, "meh, throw your idea off its boring", I'm more scared getting no replies at all. <:0

As for the sprites, I have this habit of once I made the character, I got so fired up in sketching about him/her. And for that reason as well, that I think I don't have the shot for writing but should just stuck myself to helping on art for others. <:(

[Sexo Grammaticus]

words

All good points again. Mostly what I'm talking about is the sort of self-editing that leads to Otome's current situation where you're constantly re-evaluating what you're writing and making vast assumptions about the quality of it to the point where they simply don't believe it's any good at all. There comes a point where every writer must realise that they'll never be 100% happy with what they've written and rather than simply delete that paragraph for the umpteenth time, simply do the best paragraph you can and fire it off to an editor. I've got nothing against the writer thinking that they can do a better job with a particular phrasing, slice of dialogue, pacing - but quite often I'll find they had a pretty decent working version days ago, and have been constantly uming-and-ahing over it.

lol but what do you mean by putting my characters in exactly where they don't want to be?

Conflict is character. It's perhaps the most fundamental lessons about writing you can learn. Give the characters a goal, and then put obstacles in their path. Their conflict with those obstacles is your story. They can be anything - physical, psychological, environmental, whatever - but you need to provide a source of conflict to your characters if they're to have any chance of being interesting or fully-formed. Conflict is the mechanism through which personality and character is defined; your characters need something to fight against in order to show us who they really are and how they react and move towards their end point.

I do am scared that someone would throw tomatoes on me

Simply put, get over it. You can't please everyone and at no point should you really try to. If you're afraid over someone not liking what you do, then you're not going to have a very successful life, let alone a successful writing career. You should be writing because you love to write, not to please any particular group or attract positive attention from them. Just write, and if they don't like it, listen to the constructive side of what they're saying and ultimately just keep going. Stop being such a wuss and just write.

e3: me bbcode good

[Aleema]

I'm sorry for being a super dense stupid person with not another stupid question.lol but "what do you mean by putting my characters in exactly where they don't want to be?"

If you have a character that's afraid of bears, get them around bears! Heck, make them the new bear wrangler at the circus! Character hates commitment? They wake up married! A character is defined by how they deal with conflict, so create conflict. If your scenes are "boring" then that probably means there's no conflict. Have your character ask, "What could be the worst possible thing that could happen/be said right now?" You don't have to take it to that extreme (usually only at the beginning or middle of a story), but putting the character where they don't want to be (walking alone at night after being mugged before, bumping into an ex at the store, accidentally confessing your love, etc) are what's most interesting to read.

As for the sprites, I have this habit of once I made the character, I got so fired up in sketching about him/her. And for that reason as well, that I think I don't have the shot for writing but should just stuck myself to helping on art for others. <:(

I feel that way about coding. I get a huge shot of adrenaline when I code.
Doesn't mean I shouldn't write, though ... Or that I'm not good at anything that isn't coding. If you simply don't like it, then don't do it, but I have a feeling you're just really insecure but want to make stories.

I'm pretty sure a post that does nothing but bash your game is not allowed on LSF, so don't fear those. The worst you could possibly get is "it's cliche," and I've rarely seen a post that says that and nothing else. Usually it's "it may be cliche, but I love it" or "it's a bit cliche, what if you gave her a starfish hat?" The community is rather supportive. You'll only get 0 replies if your opening post contains little to no information. (and pictures always help!)

And even if everyone got pitchforks and chanted your name, who cares? You wanted to make the game, so make it!

[OtomeWeekend]

[quote="OtomeWeekend]I do am scared that someone would throw tomatoes on me

Simply put, get over it. You can't please everyone and at no point should you really try to. If you're afraid over someone not liking what you do, then you're not going to have a very successful life, let alone a successful writing career. You should be writing because you love to write, not to please any particular group or attract positive attention from them. Just write, and if they don't like it, listen to the constructive side of what they're saying and ultimately just keep going. Stop being such a wuss and just write.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

You know what, i think you should've read the rest of my reply. :/ I said, I'm more scared of not getting even a critique at all. I think its normal to get scared. And I am aware I can't please everyone. Why would I post this? I said what I think is my writing is boring FOR ME. I didn't said for anyone or for everyone. I never mentioned saying that people find my writing boring, I'm asking for people for advices so I can improve my writing and to how to make my writing not to bore myself not others to avoid dropping the project.

I personally found you calling me a wuss offensive. I was stucked up and lost seeking for help to improve, and you call me a wuss? Who are you to say that? I thought this forum was to help people to improve their skills but if you call everyone a wuss by asking questions cause they don't have enough confidence to do the deed, then ask one of the moderators to post a rule that asking such stupid questions like this would result to banning. Seriously, you know nothing bout me to call me a wuss.


And thanks aleema for the input.

[Sexo Grammaticus]

You know what, i think you should've read the rest of my reply. :/ I said, I'm more scared of not getting even a critique at all. I think its normal to get scared. And I am aware I can't please everyone. Why would I post this? I said what I think is my writing is boring FOR ME. I didn't said for anyone or for everyone. I never mentioned saying that people find my writing boring, I'm asking for people for advices so I can improve my writing and to how to make my writing not to bore myself not others to avoid dropping the project.

You're scared of not being critiqued? That seems counter-sensical. You're afraid that people will have nothing negative - or nothing at all - to say about something you've written? You're effectively confirming here that you're only really writing for attention from other people by being demotivated from being ignored. I think it's time you stepped away from the keyboard and re-evaluated exactly why you want to write. If you write enough, I guarantee you someone will have an issue with it and tell you you're awful, if that's what you really want. You improve your writing by writing until someone tells you how awful you are, and then writing some more anyway.

I personally found you calling me a wuss offensive. I was stucked up and lost seeking for help to improve, and you call me a wuss? Who are you to say that? I thought this forum was to help people to improve their skills but if you call everyone a wuss by asking questions cause they don't have enough confidence to do the deed, then ask one of the moderators to post a rule that asking such stupid questions like this would result to banning. Seriously, you know nothing bout me to call me a wuss.

I'm a stranger on the internet. Thanks for proving my point about how you need to toughen up and just write!

[Lumen_Astrum]

@OtomeWeekend :

Hayaan mo na yan, di nman lahat ng tao na makikilala mo dito eh mabait eh. Wag mo na awayin, lalaki lang yung gulo. Marami tlagang taong di mo maintindihan -_-
(Sige na nga, send ka na lang ng PM kung gusto mo pang sumagot.)

I suggest, if you find your own writing awful, you should write first what you feel comfortable with, then go over and reread it several times until you find some contradictions in your own work, from grammatical errors to logical and "literal" mistakes. Skim the piece of what you can do and correct, then ask somebody else, maybe someone close to you, or maybe your English teacher :3
As of posting a WIP thread of your own, it seems good, but make sure you can finish it when you post it. XD

[RemnantDream]

2. I was writing the stuff, but I myself is starting to feel its boring, what should i do? >.<

This. I have been writing for about ten years now and I almost always get this way with everything I write. Even though you feel that way, others might not. Sometimes, I just had to show it to other people so they could read through it and tell me what they think. That always helped me to get back on track. So, it's not really like having a cowriter, instead, it's someone to help you focus on where you need to get.

I also agree with what Aleema said. You just have to keep writing, even if you think it's no good. Your opinion will change constantly when it comes to your own writing, but you have to keep going.

Sorry if I wasn't any help.. u.u

[papillon]

I'd love to have a proper editor like my novelist friends, but unfortunately the nature of my business makes that not a very easy option. Freelance editors exist, but are unlikely to understand the genre well enough to meet my needs, not to mention that when I've got games with enough text in them for two novels, that's not going to come cheap. And feedback from random internet people, while very helpful in catching small mistakes, can also lack the authority and experience to see the bigger picture.

Even with publishing deals, game publishers barely care if the text is in English much less how well-written it is, alas!