BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

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xelacroix
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BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#1 Post by xelacroix » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:09 am

How often do you encounter a renpy game that have a lots of dialogue.

who else think that this is BORING~

its so annoying when u need to skip2 skip2 and skip until you miss the menu option..the story is freaking annoyed u.

I hope in the future the renpy game maker will less the dialogue and more on gameplay

gameplay can be anything. maybe its a choice menu. at least every 5-6 dialogue they will be 1 option menu that player can choose and be part of game story, decide the story.. ( what i seen now its like 10-15 dialogue and 1 choice)

I play kinda a lot renpy game, but one of the best with less dialogue i think its Spirited heart

even Always remember me have too many dialogue at the beginning of the game (even if u choose to simplifide the story)

too much dialogue will make the game less reply value

1 more game that have too much dialogue was lucky rabbit deluxe...too much its freaking me out...its make the game less reply value and tiring for players if they want to play all over again just to have all the endings

what do you guys think?

dont give reply like ~ if u dont want dialogue, renpy is not for you..

i dont wanna heard comment like that because im here telling you guys for the sake of bringing renpy to the next level.

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Re: BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#2 Post by Auro-Cyanide » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:31 am

They are called visual NOVELS for a reason. If you don't like reading, they really are not for you. I'm all for more experimentation in visuals, but you would have to be nuts to overlook the potential writing has to tell a story. Dialogue especially can paint characters in ways nothing else can, to capture very complex ideas. Writing quality of course plays into this, but that is why you should consider the writing before playing the game. If you just want gameplay, play a game that has it, don't whinge when people have other preferences. It is very rude to those who have worked hard on their games and to us who like them. By that I mean it is fine for you not to like them and want to play something else. But that doesn't make them bad games just because you think they have too much dialogue.
Last edited by Auro-Cyanide on Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#3 Post by 10kNing » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:32 am

I'm more enamoured with the novel aspect of the visual novel than the gameplay, but I understand where you're coming from. Some Ren'Py games are more games than novels, some are more novels than games, yadda yadda yadda, and it's great to have your own opinion! I'm not sure how you could miss a menu option when the skipping stops at menus, though.

Oh, right, back on track! Lack of gameplay can be frustrating-- I took three hours to read a visual novel and was highly disappointed that it turned out to be a kinetic novel, despite the plot being absolutely beautiful-- but too much can be equally frustrating for replays. I'm rather iffy about games where you have to set your schedule every week because I am very lazy. I think RE: Alistair++ is an excellent game, just a bit level-grindy. Also, more decisions usually means more work for the author. Yup. Writing stuff, balancing the points, things like that.

Actually, out of curiosity, have you played Project: Princess before? It sounds like a game you'd really enjoy. Both it and Spirited Heart are influenced by the Princess Maker series, I think. The gameplay is similar, at least. It's very fun.

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Re: BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#4 Post by Applegate » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:00 am

I believe the distinction you have to make is whether you want to read a Visual Novel, or play a Simulation Game. Spirited Heart, with no offence or derision meant, is a Simulation Game more than it is a Visual Novel. If you find yourself drawn to that, it would be wiser to seek out the Simulation-esque games made with Ren'Py, than to look for the ones advertised as story-driven Visual Novels.

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Re: BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#5 Post by Wright1000 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:25 am

Applegate is right about this. Spirited Heart is actually a simulation game created using a visual novel engine. (Maybe the creator wanted to prove that Ren'py can also be used to make simulation games.)
And it is "replay value", not "reply value".
I have come across many visual novels that have lots of dialogue but still has replay value. For example- Frozen Essence.
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Re: BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#6 Post by jack_norton » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:40 am

Yes what other said is true. Always Remember Me has more dialog than Spirited Heart but "not so much more". Beside you can just save after the intro (or skip dialogues) and you can play only the simulation part which seems what is interesting to you.
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Re: BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#7 Post by Aleema » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:59 am

Going to +1 to Auro's response. Ren'Py is a visual novel engine. But Ren'Py lets you make whatever kind of games you want. Dialogue or no dialogue ... do whatever. That's the beauty of it. There really isn't some "next level" ... It's already very open-ended, and right now your suggestion is to stop making the genres you don't like, so ... no thank you?

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Re: BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#8 Post by Taleweaver » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:11 pm

xelacroix wrote:How often do you encounter a renpy game that have a lots of dialogue.

who else think that this is BORING~
If you want something innovative, why don't you do it yourself? Go ahead, surprise us all. Create a Ren'Py game with tons of gameplay and little to no dialogue. It's possible and entirely feasible in Ren'Py as well.
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Re: BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#9 Post by Camille » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:24 pm

I'm curious... If you're skipping all of the story/dialogue, how are you making decisions in the games? I mean something like:
Your friend is upset. Do you:
- Comfort her
- Leave her alone
- Tell her jokes
If you have skipped everything and basically have no idea what's going on in the story, how would you know what to do? You'd have to try all three and then sort of figure out which one works based on her reactions instead of making any sort of educated guess. I don't see how you can enjoy a visual novel where all you do is push buttons with no story/dialogue/words... What's the point? Why don't you go play more extensive simulation games or action games where story is less important? Criticizing visual novels for having "too much" dialogue or text is like criticizing a comic book for having more than one panel per page...

Anyway, I second what Taleweaver said, haha.

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Re: BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#10 Post by bunny-gypsy » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:34 pm

They are called visual novels for a reason, lol. :)

Are you sure you are not confusing genre? There are visual novels that are more story,
while others are more like Simulation games. I'm guessing the Simulation might be the games you are thinking of?
Unless you are asking for more mini-games or something? :?:

Anyway, if you want Ren'py to be more than that, then create one, then! The engine is free after all. :D
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Re: BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#11 Post by LadyAvori » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:21 pm

Auro and Aleema have the right of it. Visual Novels are the computer equivalent of the Choose Your Know Adventure Novel. Pretty much everyone who is seeking to play a visual novel, especially in this community understand this. People are telling stories using this medium. Therefore the Visual Novel is more like a Novel than a video game, imo. If you want to play games the simulation games like Spirited Heart might interest you. Some people do add more game elements to their visual novels but at that point I stop considering them simply as VNs and consider them games, like Planet Strong Hold.

There are different people who like different things. So just because it is something you don't like doesn't mean it is bad or not fun to someone else. And as Taleweaver said, if you don't like what's being made then feel free to make one you do like. Ren'py is right there for you to use after all.

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Re: BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#12 Post by Jacket » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:08 pm

/facepalm
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Re: BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#13 Post by HigurashiKira » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:42 pm

Visual novels are distinguished from other game types by their extremely minimal gameplay. Typically the majority of player interaction is limited to clicking to keep the text, graphics and sound moving (most recent games offer 'play' or 'fast-forward' toggles that make even this unnecessary).
The Ren'Py Visual Novel Engine is a free software engine which facilitates the creation of visual novels, a form of computer-mediated storytelling.
That's what wikipedia says. And I don't kno what you mean by saying that gameplay "will help Ren'Py move forward" because almost all the additions being added to it are for visual novels.
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Re: BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#14 Post by HotLimit » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:25 pm

I never make visual novels, as I'm not even a huge fan of visual novels in the first place. Even so, I'd never say I'm 'bringing Ren'Py to the next level', because the 'next level' (if you want to call it that) is basically just implementing Python code in more clever ways.

Ren'py itself is just an engine built with Python that facilitates easy coding of visual novels. It just so happens that it allows people with no skills (such as myself) to create other types of games, and people WITH skills to create hybrids that are quite impressive. Don't hate when they throw a lot of text in there, that's a combination of tradition and the original function of the engine..

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Re: BORING~ freaking many dialogue and less gameplay

#15 Post by PyTom » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:48 pm

It's also a function of Ren'Py being intended to make digital storytelling really easy. While you could use Ren'Py to make a puzzle game - and people have (nsfw) - it really doesn't have many benefits over using pygame directly for that task. In fact, the further you get away from visual-novel style games, the more you wind up fighting things like the save system.
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