Childhood > Adolescence?

[Jacket]

I don't believe I've seen many VNs that start from childhood and proceed to the adolescence of the 'hero'.

Is it frowned upon, for some reason? Would you prefer it if their childhood was told only by flashbacks, or orally by the MC?

...
So, if I (or someone else, whatever.) were to make a Visual Novel, would you care if it started with the main character being a kid and continued down the path to adulthood?

Personally, I prefer it all to be told as a back-story or via flashbacks or what-have-you.

[[I'm curious, really. I'm not making a VN about a child growing up and how he must deal with peer pressure or any of that crap, if some of you were wondering.]]

[clannadman]

It's often reinforced on this forum that your plot is completely up to you. If you want to create a VN that has a Bildungsroman (journey from childhood to adulthood) genre then I say go for it. The only professional visual novel I've seen that leads past school life into adulthood is Clannad and I'm currently creating a prequel that also deals with a journey from the teenage years into late adult life. If you're suggesting early childhood onwards then I'd have to say I don't think that's been done before. Why not be the first? As first stated, your story is your decision

[Hayzel]

I think it's because a lot of VN makers want to prove to others their maturity. That sounds like an interesting premise...it gave me an idea.

[Camille]

I think a lot of VNs in general kind of frown upon too much exposition, whether it's history/backstory/childhood... It'd be interesting to see childhood explored more, but more work. (for one, you have to have a whole set of childhood sprites or CGs?)

Also, it's very difficult to actually write children well, I think. I've read so many manga and novels where 5-6 year olds talked like they're teenagers. It's very off-putting and not true to life. I know kids grow up fast these days, but a child's mind works differently from an adult's and a lot of people don't take that into consideration. It's much easier to write what you know best, which, for most people around these parts, are teenagers or young adults. XD

That said, I wouldn't actually mind a VN that started in the MC's childhood... It all just depends on how it's done, I guess.

[Jacket]

Edited 'cause you're all quick.

It's often reinforced on this forum that your plot is completely up to you. If you want to create a VN that has a Bildungsroman (journey from childhood to adulthood) genre then I say go for it. The only professional visual novel I've seen that leads past school life into adulthood is Clannad and I'm currently creating a prequel that also deals with a journey from the teenage years into late adult life. If you're suggesting early childhood onwards then I'd have to say I don't think that's been done before. Why not be the first? As first stated, your story is your decision

Well, I get that, I'm just curious what everyone's personal opinion on it is. I am talking about 'early childhood', and as you've said, I don't think it's been done.

'Cause o' that, I'm just wondering what everyone's take on it is.

Personally, I wouldn't do it myself. Just because that would take a lot of character development, and I don't consider myself a good enough writer to go through with that without making it shit.

[[Plus I've got other plans. ]]

I think it's because a lot of VN makers want to prove to others their maturity. That sounds like an interesting premise...it gave me an idea.

Care to share? I'm bored.

I think a lot of VNs in general kind of frown upon too much exposition, whether it's history/backstory/childhood... It'd be interesting to see childhood explored more, but more work. (for one, you have to have a whole set of childhood sprites or CGs?)

Also, it's very difficult to actually write children well, I think. I've read so many manga and novels where 5-6 year olds talked like they're teenagers. It's very off-putting and not true to life. I know kids grow up fast these days, but a child's mind works differently from an adult's and a lot of people don't take that into consideration. It's much easier to write what you know best, which, for most people around these parts, are teenagers or young adults. XD

That said, I wouldn't actually mind a VN that started in the MC's childhood... It all just depends on how it's done, I guess.

Well, back-story is great, in my opinion. As long as it isn't boring I see no reason as to why it would be frowned upon.

[Camille]

It's frowned upon because it's often boring. XD

[Jacket]

<!Goes to make a "How to Write" thread!>

Unless it's an Eroge, there's no point to skip straight to the action. >_<

[clannadman]

If you feel you're unable to capture gradual character development, why not try separating your game into chapters, each one representing a year of the character's life. So say the protagonist starts out at 6yrs old then the next chapter explores his 10yrs old self, followed by his 13yr old and 16yr old self and then into early 20s and onwards (depending on what you want). By 10yrs old, the child will have gained a wider vocabulary and better skills for reasoning and evaluating situations. At 13, a child is only just a teenager but this is where things can vary depending on gender. If female, at 13 she could already begin going through menstruation and training bras and all of that whereas males at that age experience little change. By 16, the protagonist is a fully fledged teenager and should show more personality than before. As teenagers, youths are exposed far more to the adult world of sex, alcohol, drugs, and violence, and an important theme in Bildungsroman novels is the ability of the main character to encounter an issue, to overcome it and learn from the experience helping to grow and mature into an adult.

[Jacket]

If you feel you're unable to capture gradual character development, why not try separating your game into chapters, each one representing a year of the character's life. So say the protagonist starts out at 6yrs old then the next chapter explores his 10yrs old self, followed by his 13yr old and 16yr old self and then into early 20s and onwards (depending on what you want). By 10yrs old, the child will have gained a wider vocabulary and better skills for reasoning and evaluating situations. At 13, a child is only just a teenager but this is where things can vary depending on gender. If female, at 13 she could already begin going through menstruation and training bras and all of that whereas males at that age experience little change. By 16, the protagonist is a fully fledged teenager and should show more personality than before. As teenagers, youths are exposed far more to the adult world of sex, alcohol, drugs, and violence, and an important theme in Bildungsroman novels is the ability of the main character to encounter an issue, to overcome it and learn from the experience helping to grow and mature into an adult.

That would actually be pretty good practice.

Tankee Sai

[Auro-Cyanide]

I'm actually going to throw in that having a character grow up in game is going to exponentially increase the artists work load. If you are going to do it I would suggest starting with a VERY small cast. Let's say I was your artist and you had a game that had six characters. And you wanted to have six different chapters that will show them at different ages. You just took six sprites and made thirty six. Add in different outfits, hairstyles and emotions and I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to kill you. So if you are going to have sprites, try to keep the number down.

As for flashbacks, they can be good or bad. I hate when they interrupt the action and go on forever. A flashback should be very relevant to what is going on without interrupting the present action. There are of course many cool things you can do switching between present and past to create foreshadowing and mystery, but that is kind of a differnt subject all together. Personally I AM interested in learning about a characters past if it is important, but it has to be a part of the story, not a random add on.

[SilverxBlue]

My first ever VN (Even if it is a complete and utter fail because of the damned bugs.) was actually a childhood prologue of one of my games which is currently on hiatus now. ^^
I did consider having it as flashbacks but the childhood might just be too long and people might find it annoying, so I just turned it into a whole nother game.

Also, it's very difficult to actually write children well, I think. I've read so many manga and novels where 5-6 year olds talked like they're teenagers. It's very off-putting and not true to life. I know kids grow up fast these days, but a child's mind works differently from an adult's and a lot of people don't take that into consideration. It's much easier to write what you know best, which, for most people around these parts, are teenagers or young adults. XD

It is actually quite easy on my part, all I had to do was watch my nephews argue all the time or listen to the neighborhood children's woes.
Tutoring kids actually gave me an advantage.

[Aleema]

Unless it's an Eroge, there's no point to skip straight to the action. >_<

Yes, there is. A billion times yes, there is. The beginning is the most important piece you'll write for your story, because it's what determines if the reader stops or goes on. Dragging them through the muck before anything relevant happens is the biggest turn off you can do. Biographies start from the beginning because it's not "exposition" -- it's the purpose of the book. Someone started reading because they want to know all about that person's life.

In stories, no one cares about your characters. No one but you. The point of the story is to get the reader to care for them, and then on a journey. The very idea of backstory/exposition is that it is not the current story. It's something that hopefully is only introduced as a tool to better understand the current one. If your exposition is not at all relevant to the main story, keep it out. You should personally know it, but don't force it on the player.

Unless your childhood segement tells us something very crucial that can't be shown otherwise, you should ask yourself if you need it. Chronologically, it comes first. Either make it short, optional, or show it later in the story after we give a damn. In eroge or even dating sims, the "giving a damn" is a very instantaneous thing because it's based on looks and how attracted the player is to the character sprite, so they want to know more about the character. For main characters, this is less possible unless it's an opposite gendered MC. In which case, I really question why people are attracted to a character that they're introduced to as a child.

I think childhood sections are fine, really. I'm not "all childhood growing up slice of lifes are the bane of story." Jane Eyre starts off in her childhood, but it doesn't have her doing day to day menial chores. It starts off with action. Everything that is written is something important and moves the character/story further. Things happen that will shape her forever. And I'll be honest here, Jane Eyre would've been more or less the same book without the beginning chilhood montage. None of it really jumped out as relevant to me, now that I look back. But the book is her name, so it's something of a biography, I guess.

But ask yourself, do I need to show a childhood segement to show potentially scarring events in their life, or are you just doing it to show their personality? If just their personality, then you need to reevaluate if you're doing a good job handling the character. If you need the childhood to show a girl is sweet and nurturing because she played with baby dolls, why can't you show she's sweet and nuturing as an adult? Won't we get that if you wrote her well?

You're writing entertainment here, not a research thesis, so don't forget that.
Two cents!!

[Jacket]

Yes, there is. A billion times yes, there is. The beginning is the most important piece you'll write for your story, because it's what determines if the reader stops or goes on. Dragging them through the muck before anything relevant happens is the biggest turn off you can do. Biographies start from the beginning because it's not "exposition" -- it's the purpose of the book. Someone started reading because they want to know all about that person's life.

I didn't mean in the beginning, per se. I was talking more-so in generalities; even if in the middle of the VN, you shouldn't skip the back-story just because you want action. I mean, a VN is a story. That'd be like skipping chapters of the book until you get to the part where the Hero fights the Demon God, or whatever. It's not Shounen: action should just be a part of it. (Unless, of course, it's literally "action", as in the genre; but even then it shouldn't be present every other screen.)

Unless your childhood segement tells us something very crucial that can't be shown otherwise, you should ask yourself if you need it. Chronologically, it comes first. Either make it short, optional, or show it later in the story after we give a damn. In eroge or even dating sims, the "giving a damn" is a very instantaneous thing because it's based on looks and how attracted the player is to the character sprite, so they want to know more about the character. For main characters, this is less possible unless it's an opposite gendered MC. In which case, I really question why people are attracted to a character that they're introduced to as a child.

I dunno, people dig that slice-of-life crap.

[Aleema]

I think you're missing what action means here in my context. It simply means that something happens.

Also, I don't think anyone enjoys "crap."

[Jacket]

I guess I am. But even still, it's insulting to just ignore all of the meat until you get to the fat.

Crap is relative. Everyone likes crap, because someone else will always think of it as such.