No artist, no game?

[Auro-Cyanide]

(*I'm going to write a note since a couple people are missing my point. I'm one of those people that does art for games. I love art. If you can get nice art for your game, that is wonderful. However, you shouldn't be relying on someone else to make your game. If you do not have an artist currently working on your game doesn't mean you should cease work on it all together. There are plenty of other things to do, and there are plenty of resources to use. Once work stops, there is a good chance you will get distracted and the work will never be completed. So do what you can do first and worry about the rest of it later*)

Art is nice right? People like to look at it, people are attracted to it, awesome for visual story telling, all that good stuff.

But. It is not, by any means, actually needed for you to make your game. At all.

So many people seem slightly hung up on trying to get an artist to work for them, and if they don't have one... then what? Apparently everything must grind to a halt. If you can get an artist, that is great. Go for it. But if you can't, don't let it stop you. There are a huge range of options available to you. You could use placeholder art, free sprites, dolls, photos, hell, you could sketch stick figures and stick them in. Even words by themselves is functional. The important thing is that you keep you game moving. They don't even have to be permanent. You could use them for coding purposes until you do find an artist. You actually working on a project and getting stuff done is going to be far more appealing then you waiting. There is plenty for you to do that doesn't involve art at all, like writing, collecting resources, music, coding, testing. There is also a chance you may not find a permanent artist and you may have to deal with free resources. That is fine. A finished game is of far more worth then a half finished game that could possibly one day have awesome art.

Stuff happens. Some people won't find artists, some artists will disappear in the middle of a project. It's going to happen a fair bit. But it doesn't actually effect a game's ability to be in a finished, playable state.

*Mostly talking about freeware. Commercial games have a lot more riding on art, which is understandable.

[Taleweaver]

Stuff happens. Some people won't find artists, some artists will disappear in the middle of a project. It's going to happen a fair bit. But it doesn't actually effect a game's ability to be in a finished, playable state.

Happened to me a few times, and more often than not, I decided not to continue the project. (In fact, The Dreaming was the only proejct I released with half-finished art and quite a few placeholders...) The reason was that usually, the art of a game is a part of what makes up my vision of a game. And if I can't make that vision come true, I often see no reason to share what I consider a failed vision with others - in other words, I don't release the game.

Not that I'm a perfectionist. I don't mind a few typos in my games at all, or if the art isn't really fantastic, or even if everything looks as amateurish as it does when I don't have an artist and do everything on my own (see The Loyal Kinsman). But in these cases, the amateurish look is a part of the vision; I sometimes want something to look imperfect, just as I wanted the character art for The Dreaming in loli style even though quite a few people told me later that it might not be that appropriate for a psychological horror game.

But if I can't have what I wanted to have in my game? That's really a downer for me. If I want everything to look neat and coherent, I won't replace a part of the art with something that is drawn in an entirely different style, or even something similar but by another artist.

[Auro-Cyanide]

Stuff happens. Some people won't find artists, some artists will disappear in the middle of a project. It's going to happen a fair bit. But it doesn't actually effect a game's ability to be in a finished, playable state.

Happened to me a few times, and more often than not, I decided not to continue the project. (In fact, The Dreaming was the only proejct I released with half-finished art and quite a few placeholders...) The reason was that usually, the art of a game is a part of what makes up my vision of a game. And if I can't make that vision come true, I often see no reason to share what I consider a failed vision with others - in other words, I don't release the game.

Not that I'm a perfectionist. I don't mind a few typos in my games at all, or if the art isn't really fantastic, or even if everything looks as amateurish as it does when I don't have an artist and do everything on my own (see The Loyal Kinsman). But in these cases, the amateurish look is a part of the vision; I sometimes want something to look imperfect, just as I wanted the character art for The Dreaming in loli style even though quite a few people told me later that it might not be that appropriate for a psychological horror game.

But if I can't have what I wanted to have in my game? That's really a downer for me. If I want everything to look neat and coherent, I won't replace a part of the art with something that is drawn in an entirely different style, or even something similar but by another artist.

I can understand that, and of course it is a personal choice whether you want to complete a game or not.

I'm more concerned with people who seem driven to make a game and won't do so because of a variable that isn't even needed. Plus, in some cases, if they wanted to get into game making, finishing an imperfect game would be more beneficial to them. It comes down to WHY you are making the game in the first place I suppose and what is more important to you.

There is always going to be a slight clash between artists and game creators in some projects, and it has been discussed quite a few times here. Workload, lack of creative control, length of project, stress of quality, lack of commitment. A whole heap of things.

I suppose my point is, if you want to get your game done, then just do it. You can't always wait for someone else to complete your vision (well you can, but it might not always be the most efficent method). Sometimes it comes down to doing it yourself

[Aleema]

I'm going to agree. But since I'm not an artist, it's easier. But the story is really the most important thing. And if you can personally show that you want to make a game and are dedicated to it, artists will want to help you down the line. If you can get a story/game together, you'll find your artists. As the saying goes: "If you build it ... they will come." So often, the art is done before the story, and then the story never gets finished ... and the game just stops. I feel bad for the artists. ;_; On the contrary, while I feel bad for the writers whose artists quit on them, that isn't a nail in the coffin. The project isn't dead! (Again, this is mostly for free games.) Don't throw in the towel!! There's a story that still needs to be told, and you're the only one who can tell it!

[Applegate]

I've always gone by the age-old adage that, "If the story is written well, someone will read it." Consequently, I think art is an important part of many people's VN-writing experiences.

It makes a certain amount of sense. Please consider. A well-written story always has an audience. It doesn't matter if the subject matter are little girls riding on ponies, or older men sleuthing with almost magical reasoning. Whether your story stars a wartorn country that collapses in on itself, or a transient world where life lasts only a day, so long as it is written and it is written well, there is an audience that will eagerly read it, and recommend it to friends.

All the examples I cited are from authors, however. Published authors. And while writing seems like something anyone can do (and, certainly, anyone can do it), writing is much an art on itself. An inexperienced writer's stories are no different from an inexperienced artist's MS paint drawings that make you commend the effort but reject the result.

"Oh, so you meant 'art' as in, 'writing'!" Nope. I mean art as in, "Pretty pictures to gawk at". Again, this makes a certain amount of sense, so let's walk down that reasoning.

Why would 'art' hold any value for people when authoring a novel with pictures? I sincerely doubt that J.K. Rowling refused to complete Harry Potter unless she had an artist for the cover, or that the Grimm Brothers spent months looking for an artist to illustrate their stories. But then, these people have faced various tribulations to get their works published, likely with lots of editing, lots of support and encouragement and enough hubris to make an overly critical man nauseous.

I'll get to the point. I don't think all people are equally confident in their writing that they think they can pass it off without art. I've seen stories here that are stickfigure writings, yet the art was so fine that most people complimented the VN anyway. Oh the other hand, I've seen truly well-written stories that received not even half the commendations it should have received. Considering this, it isn't weird that people'd be insecure about their writing, and want to increase their Visual Novel appeal with art.

It's important, because it boosts people's confidence that they're not just doing it for nothing, and people will enjoy the product. I don't really think that's too terrible of amateurs and hobbyists to do, who want not only to tell a story, but also create a product that they've envisioned.

To some people, the "Visual" aspect of a VN is at least as important, if not more, as the "Novel" aspect of it.

I think, rather, that the chief reason a lot of VNs just "disappear" isn't just because of the lack of art, or anything. I think part of it also has to do with how much someone wants to tell that story they've written. Lots of people write stories, few people are writers.

[jack_norton]

Heh, the main reason why I'm doing so many projects at once is that, no matter what, artists will disappear for a reason or another
I was thinking just a few months ago that art/visuals were VERY important for a game, then I realized that's just how I am (I cannot make a game with average/bad art, I always want to have decent art). So now I agree, art is definitely not so essential even for a commercial game.

[DaFool]

If a story is so good or popular, chances are it will be remade or adopted to a medium with more expensive visuals.

But art is extremely important for the following:

- conventional videogames... exploration is such an integral factor in immersion. If the art is crap, you won't feel like exploring the environments.

- hentai games... it goes without saying. If people can't fap, what's the point in making?

[Celianna]

Art is essential to a game, unless you want to make a text game (and sometimes, even those have art). Since on these forums plenty of people make visual novels ... well, it's got the word visual in it. If you didn't care about art, you'd be writing a story instead, or make a text game out of it. There's nothing wrong with that of course, but to call art unimportant or not needed at all is just wrong - it is important.

Art includes anything visual, this also means your GUI in your visual novel as well, or even the titlescreen. Art being important does not mean that the art has to look good (this is subjective in many cases anyway), you just have to be consistent with it. If you are using stick figures, by all means, stick with them throughout the entire game, those can be fun. However, if you start adding stick figures along with well-done anime art, that's being inconsistent with your game (nothing wrong with it being a placeholder though). Seeing clashing art styles is one of the worst things you can do to a game, visual novel or not.

I get tired of seeing people down-play art simply because there are cases when they can't get anyone to make art for them and it's halting production, or because they can't get good looking art, so they simply go with "It's not important to the game anyway, the story is the most important thing!". Yeah yeah, we get it, but don't shove art into a section that no one cares about.

[Arcanum]

I'll be biased and say that for a visual novel I think that, yes, the visuals are important. Say, a sprite that doesn't convey the character's emotion properly will hinder the experience instead of aiding the text, a background that doesn't match the scene will confuse the player… Which is no reason at all to stop pursuing the making of a game, of course. The thing is, if you have the visuals, but no text, you have a bunch of pretty art and that's only it… If you have only the text, you still have a game (maybe not a VN, but a piece of interactive fiction nonetheless), and you can easily keep looking for graphics.

[Nebi]

Madness!

From Egyptian hieroglyphs to ancient pictographs, art existed as a form of communication years before the written word. Subconsciously we are drawn to visual stimuli and it is no different for visual novels. What was that? I missed the point completely?

*reads the rest of the thread*

Ahem. Yes, a creator should not be discouraged by not having personalized artwork. Perhaps writing is simply more difficult to appreciate because it requires a deeper understanding of the mechanics behind a language that is beyond what most people are comfortable with? Whereas we have developed an instinctive ability to judge something or someone with our eyes over thousands of years of evolution.

This hypothesis goes both ways, but what if a writer is reluctant to continue not because they have no confidence in their prose but rather enough confidence that they feel it is deserving of better quality artwork? A bit of creative ego, if you will. Especially when it comes to a personal project, which at the time of creation will appear very impressive by reason of bias.

In addition, I suspect that visual elements play a much larger role because unlike mainstream artwork, a well written story does not exist to flaunt itself. Words are meant to help make thoughts, ideas and messages easier to communicate. When it is effectively executed the brain does not pick up on the fact that it is being guided along sentence by sentence but rather starts to conjure the environment and characters mixed together with their own emotions. At least, for the visual novel audience. Therefore what sticks is not the well structured, grammatically correct paragraph but the bits of dialogue, action and thoughts associated with a visual element - a character, most usually.

One thing's for sure: having good art helps. After all, visual novels tell stories with a mesh of both art and words.

[lordcloudx]

I think that visuals are important in a VN. It's just that you don't necessarily need an artist to get the type of visuals that your story requires in order to make it effective as a VN.

I like to take some of the altogether VNs as an example. Specifically, the lesser-known ones such as Plain Song, The Poor Little Bird, 40 Days and 40 Nights of Rain and The Letter. The visuals were effective in getting the story across to the reader even though they mostly consisted of stock backgrounds, filtered photos or sketchy, blurry digital art.

It's all about managing the resources that you have on hand and making these resources conform to your vision, I believe.

Also, even if you can't do any type of visual art on your own, anyone can still learn how to work with some free or paid photo-editing software to at least get some kind of visuals out.

Of course, if your top priority is to elicit positive response in large quantities, then it's best to just go ahead and recruit the best artist you can find for your budget.

[Rewritten Ennui]

The keywords here are Visual Novel.

Fact: Words and art are both important aspects in a good VN, and they serve to complement each other.

Opinion: Art is less important to text in a VN. Any story can be transformed into a VN while using the free resources that are available in the OELVN wiki, and still be considered good. Heck, if it's good enough, an artist might even offer to draw original sprites and backgrounds for it. Art, on the other hand, does not make a VN by itself. You can have an artist who draws the most beautiful things you have ever seen in your entire life, but those have little to no meaning by themselves. There needs to be a context or a reason behind the art.

[Camille]

I don't think Auro is trying to say that art is absolutely unimportant to a visual novel/game. I mean, she's an artist herself, so she knows how important art is. XD The thing she's trying to stress is that you don't actually need art in order to write/make a game. Or at least you shouldn't. And I think she's absolutely right about that. Yes, it's nice to have art from the beginning. It's easier to feel inspired to write when you can visualize things better with artwork. However, if you absolutely can't start writing or do anything at all unless you have finished art, there's a problem. Don't rely on another person to make or break your project. Also, it's much easier to attract artists when you have a finished script/a finished idea or something. So many times people just have a vague idea that they never follow through on because they can't find an artist and they "need" an artist in order to write. D:

Like Arcanum said, if you have a script but no art, you still have a game, but if you have art and no script...

[PrivateEyes]

The thing is, this is a VISUAL novel, not just a regular novel. I admit the story is very important, but the visuals are also a key aspect of visual novels. They don't have to be stellar OMGWTFBBQ awesome quality, but it should help to enhance the main ideas of your visual novel.

[DrakeNavarone]

While I understand some of the sentiment behind this thread -- that a lack of an artist shouldn't impede on the writing of a story -- I have to wholeheartedly disagree that art is actually unimportant. I actually had brought up the opposite point some time ago (four years, in fact) here -- http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... f=4&t=1898 -- and you can go over and read what us LSF old-heads thought at the time.

The quality of the art isn't nearly as important to the visual novel as the utilization of that art. The visual novel medium should be an exploration of the marriage between the visual and novel element it affords us. Unfortunately, even four years later, not very many vns have moved out of the shallows. The writing and graphics need to work together at the base level, and they have to be tied in as early as possible for the project to grow and shine. If you are a writer, you don't have to hound out an artist immediately, but you do need to have a vision set for what the art should accomplish to further the story. To cite a practical example, and to inflate my ego a bit, this is exactly what I set out to accomplish with my first vn, Starlit Sky. I was actually very limited, resource-wise, than I was in future projects, but I believe SS puts those few resources to much further use. It takes the story, and the piece as a whole, to a place my other vns have failed to visit --- and because of this, Starlit Sky remains the piece I am the most proud of.

Even if you don't mean to say "you can do away with art completely," but mean "don't let your lack of art now prevent you from continuing to work," the very title of this thread is off-putting to those who really care or try to explore the fullest depths the medium possesses. By not giving art its due significance, you pigeonhole yourself right out of the gate, so how can you believe you can still produce your best work?