Always Bishies that are Predictable....(In Otomes anyway)

[Sunlit-Dreamer]

(Not sure if this goes here...but it is an idea of sorts so...yeah)

I've played a lot of otomes. And in each one, it's obvious to guess what will be seen. Bishies and shotas. (Mostly bishies) And they're always the choices of the main girl.

Thinking about it, even celebrities don't have this many choices of attractive guys.

So....my mind got to turning. Coming up with a lil idea that would most likely have bishie lovers shake me screaming "WHY!?".

Choices made up of absolutely plain guys you'd see on the streets. No, not on tv or in magazines. Someone you'd bump into or glance over while waiting in line for something. The average looking guys who have facial hair, hair on their arms and legs, sometimes chests, and have fat on their bodies. Those guys. The guys who you know nothing about at first glance.

Admit it. For the majority of the obtainable guys, you can pretty much guess their personality and back story the moment you see them. You know who the main guy is, the moody guy, the happy go lucky guy, and the guy you personally think has the most boring and cliched path. (Which is usually the nice guy most of the time sadly)

Crazy idea? Yes. Will it be done?.....It's a daydream so I don't know.

However I still believe it would bring interesting results. Because for those who would play it (Bored people with time to spare I guess?) wouldn't know how each guy would be like. Which means really having to get to know them, just like in reality with real people. I've met quite a few people who surprised me. (There was even an exercise in my Interpersonal Communication class for us to try to guess what the other people in our grouped listed as the top qualities they want. Everyone got me wrong on one of them....back to the topic)

Would it be a success? No. Girls want pretty boys. They always want the pretty boys when it comes to games. Because they are games.

I'll still think about this lil idea. If I do it or not....who knows.

Although would be nice to see at least a couple average guys every once in a while in games. (I am so bizarre....bwuahaha)

Edit: Thank you Auro-Cyanide for telling me how to change the subject! ^^

[Alera]

That's very true actually. There's often no need to even read what a guy is talking to you because his looks just say enough and you're too hypnotised to stare at his bishieness and droll anyway! *shot* It would be interesting if there were more surprises and mystery- where you wouldn't expect it at all. Not a bad idea. :3
Though! Just for the record- I like bishies~ just- if they aren't so obvious. I think such things could be done with them too- need a lil more play with their personality and contrast between looks and mind and acting.

[Sunlit-Dreamer]

o.o Oh my goodness I actually got a reply.

Don't worry. I'm guilty too about squealing and drooling over the bishies. (*remembers cgs from a few....nyaaaaa~*)

And that is right! Everywhere you turn in manga and anime, there is the "stereotyping process". Background characters have no features or are plain. Main characters have the cuteness, hotness, and BAM you go "He's cold on the outside but gentle on the inside" the minute you see him. I want to get to knoooooooow them! Discover their secrets. See if they're more three dimensional and not copy and paste with slightly different looks. Like in OHSHC! Sorta....at least Hunny was a martial artist. Not what someone would expect from an absolute adorable shota who loves sweets and cute things. (Hunny-sempai~~~~~....If only that otome could be translated, I'd buy it!)

Buuuut the idea itself is in the "thinking about it" phase. Might not do it, or I actually will. However college comes first, than other stuff, than thinking about stuff. Like this. I am well aware it's a lot of work to make a vn. Especially by yourself for the very first time.

Who knows though? I might make it with the average guy to see how the programming works. And if it goes well...I might make another vn. (*already has a few "storylines" in mind, but always best focus one at a time*) With bishies and average guys to make it more realistic. :3 (Because there are the few hot guys in the world as well that we see in everyday life)

[Auro-Cyanide]

Another thing to note is drawing degrees of beauty, like degrees of age, is very, very difficult. Stylised characters tend to come across as good looking or ugly, and it is very hard to try and stand anywhere in that middle ground. A lot of the time the only way you know a character is or isn't good looking is if other characters state it. Appart from that, there isn't usually a lot of indication.

[Alera]

Hah, yeah- OHSHC had some nice surprises. XD *omg, I can't believe I've watched this! -faints-*

Yup! Take your time to think carefully about it. :3 Sometimes sudden ideas like that, born just from some strong feelings of annoyance or something like that- turn out not to be so good in the end and- you might regret you ever worked on them. *Yeah, I've had such an experience when once I drew a manga for a contest and I can't believe I even won 3rd place and they published it and so many people read something I find as a failure and just a bad idea. OTL At least the art wasn't that bad I think...just the story. <.< *

[Sunlit-Dreamer]

@ Auro-Cyanide True that in drawings it is difficult to tell the difference, especially concerning guys in general. In a way I see it as a challenge and wonder if I can pull it off? It would take extra work, but if the end result is that people can tell apart who is ugly, average/plain, and pretty/handsome, than I'd feel accomplished. It's nice to complete a challenge every once in a while to know that you're able to do something, and your self-esteem goes up a little.

@ Alera Thus why I think over things a lot. Although this one didn't come out of annoyance. XD But all ideas in general still should be thought over anyway. However I tend to think over things too much....I've been thinking over two ideas for months.

Hmm...*thinking mode, rambling time* Average guys you'd see in college....make them realistic personality wise.....(Note to self work on guys anatomy)

What else....get pictures of college....no stat building....3-4 guys....maybe antagonist......(Hey, it is a thread for my idea so might as well put lil details in here too so I don't forget XP. Well, if I end up doing it. Bwuahaha.)

Uhm....that's the end of my rambles. Considering it's nearly 3am my time it makes sense my head is slowly going numb of thoughts.

(And from now on I shall randomly post stuff relating to this lil idea in here....well for now anyway)

[OtomeWeekend]

lol, out of topic but this reminds me of: Gakuen Handsome(it's BL game though) xD You know, it was full of many "bishies" with long chins and "cute" faces. I never had a chance to finish even a single route at all....

But seriously, there are many players that are playing games cause they are seeing something that would only appear on the screen.

For example, if i would play a game and the game has full of the realistic guys, very few are handsome looking and almost all were normal(but seriously, believe me or not, drawing a normal kind of guy is more difficult than drawing a hand for me x.x)---others might actually ignore the game. Most of the gamers' first criteria for the games they play is the "art" then comes personality, no matter how much of a jerk your character is, if he is an "ikemen" girls will play them! Usual comments in otome blogs: "I don't like this jerk, but his looks tempted me to play him, after i finished his route, I can only compliment on the CGs and stuff, but his story was meh"---and i might sound bad but I'm including almost all the girls, admit it or not. Eventually, its also the reason why Saikin Koi Shiteru for DS hasn't sold really good despite the fact that the game system was fun and the story wasn't bad at all.

But let's face the fact: We drool for bishies. And because we are, game-makers will make all their characters as handsome as they could to promote sales or much more, gameplay downloads(if its free). If we hadn't shown interest for bishies, they might not have existed in a game-maker's mind.

but lol, maybe its best reconsidering this facts too for your ideas ^^"

[Sunlit-Dreamer]

XFFF

Yeah, I'm well aware that it's all about the bishies which is why. *points above at the girls screaming and calling idea crazy*

After all. They're all games which means they could be made however they want. Which means lots and lots of good looking guys and girls for everyone. (*personally tends to go for the cute lil shotas nyaaa~*)

However, there have been times, not very many obviously, but a FEW where average guys were main characters. Such as Cheeky Angel (TONS of them in that one), Pretty Face (I wonder when he'll ever return to being himself), Gokusen (I need to get to reading that one), and B Gata H Kei. (Those under 18 who end up reading this....no reading that manga. NO! D:< I command thee!) There are others, but of course listing manga isn't the main topic here. XD

Anyway, those three manga, despite having average plain guys in them as reoccurring characters and love interests was very unique and funny for me. It was a nice change from all the shoujo manga where "girl suddenly meets cute boy and falls in love".

So if not very many people play it (IF I even make it at all) it really won't bother me that much. It's just a little test subject of mine running through my head.

Average guys in reality, you are looooooooooved! Feel proud of yourselves! (Except for those who are complete douchebags. Shoo. You make our lives worse. D:<)

Hmm, now I'm even more tempted to make it just to see the reactions of all the bishie lovers. lmao >:3

[OtomeWeekend]

imo, the guy in the cheeky angel(i forgot his name, was it tsukasa? tsubasa? or something else? i only watched the anime and it was 8 years ago!) isn't really normal. He has extreme obsession over the heroine(i already forgot her name, it was 8 years ago afterall) to the point that he would gladly be a girl(or gay) just so that he could be with the heroine. The only thing about him that was ordinary or exist in real life was him as a "yankee"or a bad boy or whatever(lots of those in my school Q_Q) who would pick a fight whenever and wherever. :/ ---and that his room is uhm... the so-called "a boy's room".

and btw, there was a big line between a love interest(s) in manga and in otome games...cause, in manga, we don't really choose who the heroine ends with but in otome games, we interact with the characters xD

[Vynuxys]

Meh, I'm not against the idea, but not so much to be cheering for it. I see what you mean there, and I must agree that most, if not all, games I played so far that were otome or BL had bishies. I'm guessing this is because, as you said, average-looking guys are.. average. You seem them everyday. There isn't anything captivating about their looks or something that makes you want to know them; at least that's how I feel towards strangers on the streets and that's how I would also feel toward a game character, if they had a plain boring look. You don't get to see bishies, pretty/handsome boys etc everyday, and since I am playing a made-up game, some perfections here and there are appreciated. Sure, not super realistic, but still a nice addition.

For example, in a typical high school game environment, chances are IRL most boys would be... meh. If this is the case in the game, I'd much rather quit and actually go to school to be faced with the same thing. Just my opinion. I play games as a break from everyday life and I like the characters I interact with eccentric, different, and, admittedly, handsome. I don't think otome games are supposed to be some real-life simulators, but rather, the opposite.

Another thing is not everyone can draw typical average-y 'manly' men. Stereotypically speaking, everyone's idea of manly is facial/body hair, traditional boy's cut, T-shirt with jeans and square face, so that's what I'm talking about here. Most artists just have the 'style' to make their sprites and characters look good. I do that too; I don't want to have characters that are average everyday life strangers. What joy is in that?

[Dollywitch]

I prefer how Bishies look visually but I like Manly Men in terms of characters, especially the old Go Nagai kind of ones. I plan to have both in my VNs eventually.

[Arcanum]

What I've seen is one of the guys being told, through the story, to be average. He wouldn't be average, but as the rest of the cast is so pretty and he looks more normal (no sparling colorful or long, flowing hair; no air of seduction - you know the type) he's told to be average. He might not even be that average, but others treat him as he is, and then it's a matter of willing suspension of disbelief. Actually… I've a HUGE kink for "average" guys, specially if they're mistreated by others or feel bad about it… XD'
One example is Family Complex, by the author of Princess Princess, which is about one brother who's got the most average looks of his family. He's actually REALLY REALLY adorable. But since his family is so beautiful (the younger sis is a lolita, the oldest looks like a bishounen, the mother looks very young despite being 40, etc;) everyone treats him as if he… isn't. I think it's a good way of going through that.

[Sunlit-Dreamer]

@ OtomeWeekend Yeah I'm well aware of that. Otome we get to choose, and manga we just read what the manga-ka already chose as the final guy/girl. As for why I chose Cheeky Angel as an example, it's because of the many guys with rarely any pretty boys. (If there was any, been years since I've read it myself)

@ Vynuxys I know I know. Why play something you see everyday when you could play a fantasy with an elf knight who'd protect you from an on the fence fire using bad guy along with other guys who join you on your journey that you can possibly pair up with? (If someone decides to do that type feel free to, I'll play it~) Which is why I'm deciding to be different from everything else, despite knowing it'll be very unpopular and given strange looks. Besides, as I stated before, it's a test subject for Ren'py. If I decide to do it, it'll be short and simple with no huge plot and tons of multiple endings that would make me scream due to this being my first. And what better way to start off than with something "normal". (Plus....I couldn't draw a hot guy to save my life. Really. I can't. So instead I'm setting the standards to plain guys until my artwork improves.) I knew from the moment I posted this thread it would give off a ".........What the heck are you thinking?" feeling. However I still plan to go through with it even if not a single person plays it. I'm not trying to make "the best otome of all time" or say "it's the most brilliant idea evah!". I'm just being my weird self. (And besides I'm saving the good looking guys once I'm able to draw them for the vn I'm co-writing with my little sister. Planning two at the same time right now)

@ Dollywitch Oooh~ I hope to see your vn come up! I'll be sure to play it!

@ Arcanum Sounds like an interesting way to incorporate normal guys in vns with all the bishies and shotas. I'll be sure to keep that in mind. Thank you. ^^

And I shall say now that "my feelings aren't being hurt" or thinking "you're such a meany" or anything like that. (I'm laughing at the comments really. I expected this reaction XDDDDD)

Now my brain must awaken to work on my college hw. Curse you communication class...(HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO WRITE AN ESSAY ABOUT A LONG CONVERSATION WHEN I RARELY HAVE ANY IN REAL LIFE!?)

[Anthy]

That's more of an issue of bad writing, not a problem with design.
I mean, the girls are always drawn pretty too.
Though it really bugs me, design-wise, when everyone basically looks like a clone with switched around hairstyles and eye colors. It looks really amateurish. There are all different kinds of attractiveness (not degrees, just variations), and a good artist should be able to capture that while still maintaining some level of consistency. I mean, pretty much everyone, no matter how average, becomes somewhat beautified when drawn manga-style. Unless they're REALLY supposed to be "ugly". it's just the nature of an exaggerated style.


From my experience it's more realistic to have guys with lousy looks _and_ lousy personalities (especially in a high school VN). In the fictional world it's usually just the latter. But again, that's a problem with writing, not the design per se...

The real question is, would girls still pursue the hottest guy character if his name was Derpin Buttface?

[sake-bento]

Honestly, I don't think this is really limited to just otome games. How many bishoujo games feature average looking girls? How many TV shows feature an average looking cast? Even the extras are usually pretty. I can only think of two shows that feature a lead wearing braces, and in both cases, it's considered A Bad Thing. People naturally gravitate to what they consider to be attractive. Is it shallow? Yeah. Is it human nature? Also yeah. Should that stop you from making a game featuring average looking romantic interests? No.