What is your opinion about using 3D art?

[ImmortalDreams]

I'm not that good at anime and find it easier to make 3D characters and backgrounds.
I wanted to know what you think about 3D Visual Novels.
Should I use crappy anime instead?

Here's some of my graphics so far:

[AriaRules!]

Using 3D art for backgrounds I don't mind, I've seen it a lot too, but with Character's it's a different thing, I prefer 2D art because you can see the faults and glitches but I have yet to see a visual novel in full 3D. I think you should give it a shot (:

[LateWhiteRabbit]

I tend not to like it. Poorly done 3D stands out more to me than poorly done 2D art. Partly this is because I do 3D professionally (I was aiming to work in games when I graduated, but I landed a gig doing it for big budget movies instead). So to me every little error in texturing, UV mapping, lighting, etc. just jumps to the fore-front. I can't help but notice and be bothered by those things. While with 2D art I may still be critical, but I can be a lot more forgiving on the basis of style. After all, even bad 2D artwork has an identifiable personality and style that carries across all of the artwork from that artist, while bad 3D is just . . . bad.

Poser models and sets can have nice modeling, but the textures tend to be bad or plain, and few if any artists I've seen using Poser models know how to light them properly, and lighting is 80% of the battle. I mocked up a 3D environment for a client once and due to the quality of the lighting alone it took them 10 minutes to realize that the scene had NO textures. That is a big indication of how important good lighting is. It can raise the bar tremendously on poor work, or absolutely ruin good work.

I feel like 3D should be used as a tool in VN, not as the end result. At least not still looking like 3D. Many comic artists and manga artists are using Google SketchUp for help with backgrounds and perspective. An example from Marvel Comics is here. Ken Akamatsu's Negima! manga's backgrounds are all almost entirely 3D at this point as well. (Though the big take-away here is that you can't TELL they aren't drawn.) I often use 3D models to help me with perspective and backgrounds when making art, quickly blocking in the environment, setting a camera angle and then painting over the result.

I feel that if 3D is to be used, it should be with it's strengths in mind - namely, an interactive 3D environment with free movement. If you are going to restrict things to a fixed 2D perspective, you've already lost many of it's strengths. Setting up a good 3D environment, lighting it properly (potentially for different times of day) and modeling, texturing, and rigging characters to properly display emotion and a full range of movement without looking creepy takes just as long or longer than drawing the same scene in 2D. Longer most of the time.

If I am working in 3D I have to:
1) Make a high detail sculpt of the character
2) Retopologize the character so it can render quickly
3) UV unwrap the character model
4) Bake all the details of the sculpt down
5) Render all the different maps like depth and ambient occlusion
6) Texture the color (called the diffuse) map
7) Rig the character for animation so it can be posed
8 ) Light the character
9) Render out different passes
10) Combine all the passes in Photoshop to tweak the image quality
11) Repeat for every change in outfit and each additional character or background element
12) Cry myself softly to sleep

Where as if I am working in 2D:
1) Do silhouette studies
2) Do some thumbnail sketches
3) Do a rough pencil sketch
4) Scan the sketch into the computer
5) Ink the sketch (optional)
6) Color

Every one of those steps is much faster (possibly with the exception of coloring) than any of the 3D steps. And actually I have to do the first 3 2D art steps before I start the 3D process anyway!

As a bonus I have found that being good at 2D art tends to translate well to making 3D art - but with few exceptions, not the other direction. Take from that what you will.

P.S. Am I the only one getting a Buffy and Angel vibe from the posted images?

[Himekinori]

I like 2D art better o.o

[Fawn]

3D graphics are just so lifeless... You can easily learn to draw if you learn the basics first (which most people don't because they don't have the patience), or just get a starving artist to help you out.

To me, VNs are kind of like interactive comic books. It'd be pretty weird to have 3d art for a comic book, wouldn't it? Specially the typical poser 3D art that is generally very expressionless and bleh...
It's also easier to appeal to people with styles that are already established. Most people who like VNs are used to drawn 2d anime-style graphics.

[fleet]

@ImmortalDreams,
Your stuff looks really good. I like how you did the shading and lighting.
IMHO, many folks here won't bother to play a VN that uses 3D graphics (an exception might be hentai).
I wish you success.

[Marcelo_Orlando]

I'd like to see more 3D art in VNs, in fact I'd love to. It would be awesome to see this style become popular but I doubt that will happen anytime soon since the band wagon is so appealing.

As for your other question, if you'd like to have more than just me playing your game then you might just want to use crappy anime lol

[HigurashiKira]

1) "Anime" is not an art-style, it's a medium. Also, it's not nessisary to draw in that style, there are a few VN's here that are being done in a more "toon" style.
2) 3D Backgrounds are what a lot of people resort to when there is no available BG artists.
3) Reason why a lot of people dislike 3D models is because they tend to fall into the Uncanny valley However, if the models are well done then they can actually be used instead of your typical sprites.

[bunny-gypsy]

As much as I love 3D stuff, the problem with 3D is that it's hard to make it not look...creepy or stiff.
You would also have to make sure the lighting doesn't make the model look weird, either.
There's something... plastic-y about 3D if it's not done right.

I wish you luck if you still want to do 3D. It's quite tricky... (I've tried my hand at various 3D programs
throughout high school and I also draw/doodle, and sometimes, I feel 3D is much more trickier to pull of than 2D, lol.
I do like playing with 3D games more, though.)

I like both 2D and 3D myself, but 3D might feel better suited for non-visual novel games.

3D adventure games, shooters, action-adventure, RPGs, etc, might be more suited for 3D.

[J. Datie]

I think the biggest problem with using Poser stuff is that it comes out so uneven. For example, the backgrounds contain good quality, high polygon furniture, but the rest of the room is empty, with PS2 level textures. This is especially true of the characters. The model is highly detailed, but the poses, expressions and lighting is just so... default. Honestly, I think it might actually look better with lower quality models. If you're set on using 3D, maybe look into creating your own stuff? It'd be way more time consuming, but you'd be able to make sure that everything is created with the story in mind. Plus, it'd give you a chance to get acquainted with the basics of poses and lighting.

[Crocosquirrel]

As has been mentioned previously, Poser/Studio models tend to look bad if you don't know exactly how to work the problem.

Unfortunately, unless you're Bagginsbill, you're going to have a rough time getting it exactly so. You'd be better off making your own stuff in a better tool if you want the piece taken seriously. Besides, V3/A3/M3/M and V4 and their variations are nearly all recognizable for what they are immediately.

Making your own means you have something specific to what you're working on. Might take a while longer, but if you have a posable model, you can do anything you like with it, and making the actual art takes nearly no time at all.

As far as Backgrounds, you can make nearly anything with very little skill, including furniture and etc. All it takes is a few primitives and the right tool. Lighting is far easier as well, if you know how.

Take this piece...

I did that one in a few days.

[Auro-Cyanide]

Well, there is nothing stopping you from doing so, and if that is what you want to do, I say go for it.

However, I second everything HigurashiKira said, especially the thing about 3D art falling into uncanny valley. People don't dislike 3D art, they dislike unpolished 3D graphics. If you can create something that is 3D and aesthetically pleasing, people would like it. People are attracted to pretty things. 3D art is just a lot harder to make look pretty.

[Marcelo_Orlando]

That's one of the more interesting things about this conversation to me, it seems more people are willing to except badly drawn 2D art than low quality 3D art. Really? Really? At the most poor quality 3D art looks like an amature made it while some low quality 2D art looks like a child made it. Just as well though, there are low quality 3D animation shows and third grade drawn animation shows that are both popular so...yea there's no accounting for taste.

[fleet]

That's one of the more interesting things about this conversation to me, it seems more people are willing to except badly drawn 2D art than low quality 3D art. Really? Really? At the most poor quality 3D art looks like an amature made it while some low quality 2D art looks like a child made it. Just as well though, there are low quality 3D aniamtion shows and third grade drawn animation shows that are both popular so...yea there's no accounting for taste.

I tend to agree with Marcelo-Orlando, more people who post here seem willing to accept (or not criticize) badly drawn 2D art.

[Fawn]

well, as it's been mentioned, if you can make it look good, sure. But, let's face the facts, most 3d art from poser doesn't look good, in fact it's pretty creepy cause of the dark shadows and bland colors. The characters always seem to have the same faces as well, and look angry and scary...

If you can make something that looks good (Such as Marcelo_Orlando's icon, that's 3d art, correct?) then there's no problem. But I'd much rather see a badly drawn 2d picture than a creepy angry-looking 3d "person" who's badly lit so they look even scarier.

I guess it's like clowns. It looks human, but there's something different or "wrong" about how they look that makes them seem unhuman, which scares plenty of people.