Lemma Soft Forums

Hi!

I found myself thinking about a few things regarding the availability fo information about people available for hire/commission for commercial and/or non-commercial projects...
So I have a couple of questions/ideas I'd like you two answer if possible and tell me what you think?

1. What's the etiquette about asking other devs about the people they've hired to work for them (writers, artists, programmers, musicians, etc)?
Is this accepted at all, is it possible only between friend devs, or you just try to find the credits of their game and cross your fingers your google-fu is good enough to find them?
I'd like to know this, since sometimes I'd like to know how to find this writer/artist/composer's website or other works by them, and they're working on a project under development and not credited yet anywhere, and I have no idea how to find info about them ^^;

2. What's your point of view regarding sharing information about people you hire/commission/work with so they can work on other projects for other people?
I understand that some people like to keep their "assets" to themselves, so they don't give advantage to their "competitors", but I also think that it may help beginner devs find people and thus make more games available for everybody.
Also, as a person trying to make a living out of commissioned art, the more clients/projects one person gets hired for, the better

3. Would you like to have a thread with a master first post with members available for hire/commission here on LSF, so anybody looking to commission a writer/artist/composer/programmer can find one easily?
I was thinking that it would be easier than just searching through the recruitment forums for posts that may have been buried for a while. This would be for commission-able people only, since people offering their work for free (as I've observed) usually get recruited rather quickly and a master post with available people would be harder to mantain.

So... would you mind sharing your thoughts/info about the subject?

Thanks in advance C:

I think for the first two, there is no harm in asking The worst you can get is a no after all and I don't think anyone would be terribly offended about it.

I think number 3 is a good idea, but someone would have to keep track of who is and isn't available and probably filter them every now and then to get rid of the people who have disappeared off the face of the earth. But I don't think it should be too bad since the number of commissionable artists actually internally involved in VNs is quite small. External people could register their interests as well.

1. I think this is completely fine ;p. Aren't credits in (commercial) VNs/games also meant to expose people like musicians who then get a better image = more work?

2. Anyone who gives you personal information about the people they worked with without asking them first, is kind of a douche in my opinion. It can't be hard to send them a mail/PM/ or just ask them through a messenger/real life if it's ok to share the information. After that and if they agree, why not?

3. Good idea, you can list them as musicians/artists/etc and you could also place their website or username next to it (like a link to someone's page so you can easily pm them).

Deji wrote:
3. Would you like to have a thread with a master first post with members available for hire/commission here on LSF, so anybody looking to commission a writer/artist/composer/programmer can find one easily?
I was thinking that it would be easier than just searching through the recruitment forums for posts that may have been buried for a while. This would be for commission-able people only, since people offering their work for free (as I've observed) usually get recruited rather quickly and a master post with available people would be harder to mantain.

I think yes. Maybe it could be a wiki page instead of a thread? It would allow the commission-able people to edit their own entries depending on their status at the time.

1. I keep a running list of all artists who have ever worked for me. This list is long and detailed, covering around 100 artists and groups and my personal/professional feelings on them. I will never make this list public, but if a fellow developer ever asked me my opinion on someone who has worked for me, I will give it, good or bad. Part of the reason I keep the list.

2. This one is something I'm a little touchy on and an exception to the above statement. When it feels like you are building up a relationship with a freelancer and then get dropped on your butt because they found something prettier, you naturally are a little hurt. It's something I'm dealing with right now. Creates bad blood between the studios and former friends. So if it is one of my long-term folks or someone I am aiming at become such, I try to discourage that and hold my info.

3. Not a fan of this idea. In addition to the logistical support of maintaining it, situations change on a very rapid basis. The person who was previously available might not be, either picking up something else or taking a break. You'd have to maintain a constant track of all participants, which gets crazy after a while. Personally, I'd rather just maintain my personal list. Then again, I'm almost always in the commissioning arena, so I need to have up-to-date information, which other people might not need.

Auro-Cyanide wrote: But I don't think it should be too bad since the number of commissionable artists actually internally involved in VNs is quite small. External people could register their interests as well.

Yeah, I almost never pull people from the forum. >.>; Most of the people I tap come from deviantart.

I understand that some people like to keep their "assets" to themselves, so they don't give advantage to their "competitors"

I would feel rude refusing to give away (public) information about people that have worked for me in the past just out of some desire to keep others from using them... however, I might indeed not wish to give away information on people who are working for me RIGHT NOW in case taking on new projects caused them to slow down what they're doing for ME!

Deji wrote:1. What's the etiquette about asking other devs about the people they've hired to work for them (writers, artists, programmers, musicians, etc)?

I get asked that often I usually always have a "credits" screen in my games with the person real name/deviantart nickname though.

Deji wrote:2. What's your point of view regarding sharing information about people you hire/commission/work with so they can work on other projects for other people?

It's not much about giving advantage to competitor. I don't consider any indie making games my competitor, more likely a colleague or even friends. I always try to promote other people games in my newsletter.
HOWEVER, it can be a pain to find a good/reliable artist - so when I find a new one, I'm a bit jealous and I don't like to give it away immediately. IF I have 3-4 good artists already working for me I don't have problem though. In practice I want to make sure that if I start a new game I don't get delayed by the art too much

Deji wrote:3. Would you like to have a thread with a master first post with members available for hire/commission here on LSF, so anybody looking to commission a writer/artist/composer/programmer can find one easily?

Yes that would be a good idea.

Thanks for all the replies, guys (:

Auro-Cyanide wrote: I think number 3 is a good idea, but someone would have to keep track of who is and isn't available and probably filter them every now and then to get rid of the people who have disappeared off the face of the earth. But I don't think it should be too bad since the number of commissionable artists actually internally involved in VNs is quite small. External people could register their interests as well.

KomiTsuku wrote: 3. Not a fan of this idea. In addition to the logistical support of maintaining it, situations change on a very rapid basis. The person who was previously available might not be, either picking up something else or taking a break. You'd have to maintain a constant track of all participants, which gets crazy after a while. Personally, I'd rather just maintain my personal list. Then again, I'm almost always in the commissioning arena, so I need to have up-to-date information, which other people might not need.

I was thinking about having a thread with websites/deviantART accounts/commission threads the members have put up and/or they use to get contacted with. It wouldn't be a thread that keeps tabs on who is available/not available for commission at the moment, just like, in most websites that are not, say, deviantART, artist s have their contact information up and, ig they're busy, they just tell the potential client that are busy at the moment and may or may not be free in X amount of time, if they are interested in waiting. At least that's how I do it ^^;
Would that be a bother?
I mean, would you find useful a list that has contact info of commission-able people (artists, musicians, writers, programmers, etc) that you have no idea if they're busy or not so you'll have to ask them, or you'd rather not have that list of the available/unavialbale status is not listed?

Anna wrote: 2. Anyone who gives you personal information about the people they worked with without asking them first, is kind of a douche in my opinion. It can't be hard to send them a mail/PM/ or just ask them through a messenger/real life if it's ok to share the information. After that and if they agree, why not?

I wasn't thinking about personal information, put public contact information, like their website (if they have any) or their contact e-mail (they one they hand out on business cards or have listed as their contact info for potential clients). I don't think it'd be okay to ask anything more than that o_o

Sapphi wrote: I think yes. Maybe it could be a wiki page instead of a thread? It would allow the commission-able people to edit their own entries depending on their status at the time.

I think that'd be a nice idea, but I believe most people don't keep an eye on the wiki, nor are willing to edit their info there? While I think it'd be easier for people casually visiting the forums just to post on a specific thread once or every now and then, and then have somebody that keeps track on that thread update the First Post every few days/once a week or so.

KomiTsuku wrote: 2. This one is something I'm a little touchy on and an exception to the above statement. When it feels like you are building up a relationship with a freelancer and then get dropped on your butt because they found something prettier, you naturally are a little hurt. It's something I'm dealing with right now. Creates bad blood between the studios and former friends. So if it is one of my long-term folks or someone I am aiming at become such, I try to discourage that and hold my info.

papillon wrote: I would feel rude refusing to give away (public) information about people that have worked for me in the past just out of some desire to keep others from using them... however, I might indeed not wish to give away information on people who are working for me RIGHT NOW in case taking on new projects caused them to slow down what they're doing for ME!

jack_norton wrote: HOWEVER, it can be a pain to find a good/reliable artist - so when I find a new one, I'm a bit jealous and I don't like to give it away immediately. IF I have 3-4 good artists already working for me I don't have problem though. In practice I want to make sure that if I start a new game I don't get delayed by the art too much

I completely understand that, that wouldn't be a nice thing at all!
So it'd be better to ask for people that have worked for others in the past maybe, or just ask to pass the info when they're done with whatever they're doing for you?

Deji wrote: I completely understand that, that wouldn't be a nice thing at all!
So it'd be better to ask for people that have worked for others in the past maybe, or just ask to pass the info when they're done with whatever they're doing for you?

Well for me, changes a lot, for example in some periods I start many projects (like now I have 4 new ones) while in other I have to catch up. In case of someone skilled and reliable like you for example I'd have hired you for this whole year, but I was busy finishing other games during JAN-MAY so I didn't have time to ask

Deji wrote:
I wasn't thinking about personal information, put public contact information, like their website (if they have any) or their contact e-mail (they one they hand out on business cards or have listed as their contact info for potential clients). I don't think it'd be okay to ask anything more than that o_o

Oh oops, I wasn't trying to say you were thinking that, I meant more like in general. Sorry if I sounded accusing. If you're sure the e-mail address is meant for business, then I don't see why you can't share it ;).

Deji wrote:
3. Would you like to have a thread with a master first post with members available for hire/commission here on LSF, so anybody looking to commission a writer/artist/composer/programmer can find one easily?
I was thinking that it would be easier than just searching through the recruitment forums for posts that may have been buried for a while. This would be for commission-able people only, since people offering their work for free (as I've observed) usually get recruited rather quickly and a master post with available people would be harder to mantain.

Thrown in an easy contact: email/IM address and an obligatory portfolio link. Not sure if pricing should be included.