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I recently discovered after sending my artist the written version of my game that I've not only managed to make some major Word Document to Ren'py translation errors, I've also managed to become misguidedly cliche and predictable. So, my fellow writers, do any of you have sort of a checklist that you go through when writing your script so that you can avoid these mistakes?

Every time I introduce a new plot point or detail in my story, I add it to a list in a separate file. So as I write, I keep peeking into that file for reference so I can keep things consistent and avoid plotholes. (or conflicts) I've already outlined the entire story and made up a timeline of what things are supposed to happen when, so I know where the plot twists and whatnot are supposed to happen. That's pretty much how I deal with that.

As for being cliché and predictable, it's easy to think of your own work as such because you already know everything that's going to happen. XD Often when I re-read my own work, it sounds like crap to me, but that doesn't mean it really is. You are your own worst critic. The best thing to do is get one or two other people to read through your script to check your work. Don't spend too much time re-writing and "fixing" your work. It's a neverending process. You need to know when things are done so you can stop nitpicking. XD

I've just recently write a story too. And because I'm not sure about what I've write so far, I asked some of the people on this thread before I start chapter two. Then, I found soooo many mistakes regarding the characteristics, the plot, the background, and most of all, the skeleton. Taleweaver told me somethings about the skeleton of a story before I make the details. It's an overview of the story from first to last, like, first, introduction, then, second, make the readers go through the first conflict, third, deeper to the character, etc. And he make a list of questions that helped me a lot to understand my story, and from there, I found it easier to know the plot holes, and how to make the story not cliche, how the story will flow, the main idea I should follow, etc. Uhm, I don't really understand your problem, but I hope this would be helpful at least a little...

I find it easiest to write my code in notepad, personally. That way you can just copy/paste with no weird formatting issues.

When it comes to story and cliches... Well, one thing I do is to make a list of all of the cliche elements to a given story as I proof-read it. Then I decide which ones serve the story best (because yes, cliches can be good for a story, if done correctly! ), which ones are tolerable and which ones must go.
Then, I re-write the plot using this list as a guide. I'll tweak the good cliches, drop the bad ones, and I'll try to reverse the merely okay ones.

For example-
I had an idea for a giant robot monster smashing game a when I was in my teens. It featured a young, blue haired protagonist fighting against other worldly horrors with a gigantic humanoid bio-machine. Does this sound familiar? It's really no coincidence that I had recently finished watching Neon Genesis Evangellion.
When I realized that, I made the cliche list and decided "Okay, I want to make a giant robot story, because that would just be fun. I'll keep that. And I want the monsters that the hero fights to be weird, so I'll keep that. I'll drop the bio-machine idea and the blue hair (because... Why?) and... Hey, why aren't they any stories about an adult piloting a giant robot? Wouldn't that make more sense anyway? What if I made the protagonist surprisingly mature, perhaps even middle aged?" etc.

The result is a story of a man caught in a midlife mortality crisis as he is made to battle with forces he cannot comprehend, which reflects the state of his own fears of the future and his own coming decline.

Anyway, that's just something that has worked for me in the past. I'm sure there are lots of people on here who have better advice than me, but I hope this helps!

@Camille

XD I didn't think I was cliche or predictable but my artist did and then when I read it for myself I sort of saw it too. I have the fetish for "I'm all alone so love me," types . ;=;

@ JAM
ooooo. Can you give it to me?<3?

@Kingjing
Apparently I've been doing the Cliches in the bad away. I have the scene where they cry in the rain (;=;) So...I should just try to work it to the point it becomes less cliche and more...logical? That might be hard for me XD

They're crying in the rain because no one passing by on the street has given them a second glance except to spit upon them and the last food they had was a crust of bread four days ago and their piddling blanket has been soaked through such that the icy water freezes them to the very marrow

But yeah, basically just make sure that your cliches have a rationale behind them that's in keeping with the situation and the character. It's not a good habit to have a [type of scene] just for the sake of having a [type of scene].

Hayzel wrote:@Kingjing
Apparently I've been doing the Cliches in the bad away. I have the scene where they cry in the rain (;=;) So...I should just try to work it to the point it becomes less cliche and more...logical? That might be hard for me XD

A cliche is something we've seen done a hundred times before. What's good about them is that they allow an easy way in for the reader/player. They know the rules, as it were, and can follow the plot with much greater ease. The problem comes from having too many cliches in a row.
Now the crying in the rain scene may be appropriate (obviously I can only guess) to your story. Does a lot hinge on that scene? Is there a specific reason why it must be raining, even if it is just to enhance the gloomy atmosphere? Maybe you could draw your reader's sympathy by creating a high contrast between the characters (who are clearly suffering) and their environment (which may otherwise look quite peaceful).

So, yeah. My advice would be to go through the script with your collaborator and iron out those kinks before you go on.
And you're lucky to have someone who's willing to point out the cliches in your work! Wish I had someone like that when I wrote the first draft of my own script! XD

It's an important scene. It's when the main character finds out his friend has been prostituting himself out for money. So yeah, it's pretty important x.x (Keith goes pow in the guy's face (the guy that isn't his friend of course) then confronts the boy about it before taking him in >.o

Hayzel wrote:I recently discovered after sending my artist the written version of my game that I've not only managed to make some major Word Document to Ren'py translation errors, I've also managed to become misguidedly cliche and predictable. So, my fellow writers, do any of you have sort of a checklist that you go through when writing your script so that you can avoid these mistakes?

In terms of Cliché and predictable -

Try to avoid using character deaths as an emotional driver in of themselves. Make some significance of their death, if they do die.

Avoid having every character do excessive exposition, though some people(including myself at times) seem to like that. It is a bit of a hallmark of Nasu's writing though.

"Mysterious" and "Surprising" things are one of the things you definitely must do right, and avoid if you can't. There are too many things that start with "Where am I?", "What's going on?" "What is that thing!?". Surprising or mysterious things must actually FEEL like that. Would you find yourself taken aback by that if you were reading a VN with a scene like that? If no - reconsider how your characters react to it. At the same time, having the character act unsurprised or too much like the reader would is also a Cliché associated with poor writing, very common in amateur works based off "Shonen" stuff trying too hard to avoid the surprise when a character unleashes an awesome power.

Sometimes characters are going to be surprised or impressed - or intrigued, but make sure it feels natural. Don't put yourself beyond giving characters surprising reactions to these things too. Not everyone in some fantastical setting is going to react in a manner that seems to make sense - just as real people sometimes don't. Again - this can lead to an easy cliché of the insane, Joker type character who finds everything hilarious and reacts "randomly".

Similarly if you're doing random - make sure it means "random" and not the orderly, hipster weeaboo kind of "random" that usually involves sporks, cheese and monkeys.

In terms of surprise especially - don't show us a character who can kick holes in planets and expect us to get impressed. Just because you describe a character that way within an apparently consistent narrative doesn't mean you've done your work and we'll believe it. Give us reason to believe it. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a great example of something that builds itself up in a way that you actually "feel" the scale getting bigger and bigger.

A lot of these things are acquired skills, there's no way to explain how to do them right - but I can at least point out they're generally areas that need the most focus. Trying to avoid them can if you can't do it might be limiting, but can result in an interesting and unconventional story with characters that don't react in the normal way.

The one thing that really bothers me is when characters end up as know-it-alls to try and avoid the typical Shonen style "surprise" at a revelation, acting like they knew everything ahead of time even if they're not protrayed as particularly intelligent or manipulative characters. Every character is not Izaya, and even Izayas can be fallible. "Patrician" type characters(See; Discworld) tend to annoy me a bit too. Perfection annoys people, but so does starting with a perfect character and introducing half-assed flaws. Try and build characters from the ground up instead of top down, unless you're purposely creating a "Deconstruction" type story, like Madoka is to Magical Girls, Eva to Mecha, etc.

Avoiding falling back on stereotypes unless they're particularly humorous and fit the overall feel(See: Team Fortress 2 for how to use charicatures correctly). Don't worry too much if a character does turn out to fit a mould though - you can't be completely original all the time, so don't try to be, and don't mess up a good character just because they seem to fit a certain description - in a long VN with complex character interactions, there's plenty of chance they will react or say something unexpected without you forcing it.

Don't have all your female characters have huge boobs, and be either moeblobs~ swooning over the main or having that faux-feminist, something to prove kind of attitude. Don't have all your guys be like Shonen leads.

Don't set out to make a character "as a tsundere" "strong silent type" etc. unless your plot or group of characters require such a thing. I know some people are very attached to these archetypes and want "one of their own", but realise everyone else does too. Again, if you have a character that fits into these archetypes, don't strip them of it or add random bullshit character quirks, but at least try to make them interesting examples of the trope.

Hit up TV Tropes maybe and take a look. Tropes aren't things to avoid, or that you can avoid, but some of the more obnoxious ones, you may want to steer clear of.

More later. Might collect these in a seperate thread.

While I enjoyed it some what, I found Red Shift to be a good study in terms of certain Clichés to avoid.

What a nice topic :D! The suggestions given so far here are really good.

What might also help you is to read more books yourself and then think about what you liked, what you didn't like and why you did(n't) like those things.

Or, find someone who reads a lot of books (for example fantasy books) and have them proofread your story or your outline (<- preferred because you'll be changing a lot), while telling them to be as brutally honest and thorough as possible and making sure they can do that. It will make you pull your hair out, but in the end it will make you feel satisfied for fixing all that and having a better story!

I've done this so many times and even quite recently myself with my partner in VN-making and for me it really works. Such people can really know and recognise things your story might (not) need, they're awesome <3! The more you discuss your plot this way, the more understanding you will develop of creating a story as well, it'll be a lot fun.

Anna wrote:What a nice topic ! The suggestions given so far here are really good.

What might also help you is to read more books yourself and then think about what you liked, what you didn't like and why you did(n't) like those things.

Or, find someone who reads a lot of books (for example fantasy books) and have them proofread your story or your outline (<- preferred because you'll be changing a lot), while telling them to be as brutally honest and thorough as possible and making sure they can do that. It will make you pull your hair out, but in the end it will make you feel satisfied for fixing all that and having a better story!

I've done this so many times and even quite recently myself with my partner in VN-making and for me it really works. Such people can really know and recognise things your story might (not) need, they're awesome <3! The more you discuss your plot this way, the more understanding you will develop of creating a story as well, it'll be a lot fun.

Seconded.^^