An Efficient Workflow?

[Reikun]

Hello everyone!

I've been spending the past 3 days on a script for my project and I'm nearly done with it. But then I stared thinking ahead about art/programming and it made me wonder what an efficient workflow for a project would be. Obviously the script should be written first, so that's what I've been doing, but after that what do you tackle next? Does it make more sense to do art (sprites, bgs, etc.)? Or should one start fleshing out the programming so that you see exactly how your script translates into a playable game? Has anyone ever experienced doing the art, only to find out in the programming phase that they don't really need a certain sprite expression/background? Or would that kind of situation only mean you had a poorly written script? O___O

[Fawn]

I've found the best thing to do is do your coding as you script. Ren'py code isn't much different than a typical movie script (I'd say it's even simpler) and, you'll also save time by not having to completely convert the script to ren'py format. Also, you can write in ren'py code wherever you want, not just in jedit. I use Google Docs or Notepad to write my scripts.

As for art creation, what you can do is make a comment in the ren'py script by putting a # mark in front of your text (this makes it so it doesn't show up in the game). The text describes the art you'll need, while also giving the name for the sprite/cg. For example:

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label start:

#show girl happy 
#Artwork note: this sprite looks like a girl who is happy, blah blah details details

"The girl smiled at me. She's happy."

Now, when you go back to finish off coding, you define the sprite "girl happy" with the art you've made and remove the # mark and the extra note that you put there. Once the # mark is removed from in front of "girl happy" it'll be treated as regular code and will show the image you've defined.

I hope this works for you... It's saved me a lot of hassle when coding!

[Camille]

Well, personally speaking... The first thing I did was outline the entire story and come up with the bare minimum we'd need for art. So even though the script is only about 1/3 done right now, we have a clear idea of all the locations that will be visited and most of the characters that will be showing up. (I can go on for pages and pages about the importance of outlines and planning)

Auro, the artist for the game I'm working on right now, first got to work on that "bare minimum" stuff and so she's constantly working on art as I write. The way she does the sprites, she comes up with variations on the eyebrows/eyes/mouth, so there are literally hundreds of possible expressions for each sprite. If I find that I desperately need another style of eyebrow or whatever, I let her know, but so far we've been pretty happy with the sprites.

Since I came up with the list of locations early, the ones we use are all important. To make things easier, we stick to a core group of locations/BGs. You'd be surprised how easy it is to re-write scenes so that they happen in certain places. I'd never write a scene in a new location where that scene would be the only one to take place there. It takes Auro a lot of time and effort to draw a BG, so I'd never want to put her through that without a good reason. D: All of the BGs we have (or will have) have been and will be used many, many times. XD

I'm the type that finds it easier to write when I have accompanying visuals, so having Auro work on art while I write keeps me motivated and excited to work. (I think it goes both ways so my writing also inspires her art, or so I hope xD) When I'm not in the mood to write, I program or work on arranging music/SFX, so I'm really working on my game most of the time. That's the workflow that works for me. If you'd really like to avoid ending up with sprites/BGs/etc that you won't need, it'd obviously be best to write out your whole script first, but if you're like me, then just outlining and planning well should help you out loads. Don't try to get an art asset done unless you're 100% sure that you need it/will use it.

[MoPark]

I tend to like to code the technical aspects I need first. So I like making all my data structures and declaring all them variables right at the start. For the project I'm working on at the moment, where variables change all the time throughout the script, and where those same variables also determine interactions and whatnot, I find it nearly impossible to write without having all that taken care of.

I do agree with Camille and Fawn as well!

[fleet]

Do what works for you. Below is my technique.

Outline story completely
Create characters
Get background art
Write dialog
Build VN in software of choice
Select and add music
Beta test

[Reikun]

@Fawn - Wow! I never thought about writing the script right into ren'py code. That's a really great idea! Thank you so much for sharing! I'm not well versed in the code, but from what I did from my guinea pig project it seems quite simple. I will definitely try your suggestion in the future (since my script is almost completely done already '''OTL). It sounds like a definite time-saver! But what do you do when the story starts to branch out into very distinct paths? Do you just write one whole path until it reaches an end, then go back to the other path and do the same thing? For instance:

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menu:
     "Go to the beach":
         jump beach
     "Go to the pool":
         jump pool

label beach:
     [entire beach path here]

label pool:
     [entire pool path here]

And if the separate paths have different choices and more paths in them, how do you stay organized as to what path is where within the code?
Again, thank you for your input *A*

@ Camille - That sounds very fun and inspiring to be working in a team! I'm doing the writing/code/art all on my own so I'll just have to keep myself inspired I guess. Thank you for your suggestion with reusing locations! Now that I think of it, it is very reasonable to reuse locations instead of having to use a unique background only once (and I may have some revising to do, hehe).

@ MoPark - I can see how having the variables taken care of would help you in writing the script! But after getting your technical stuff down-pat, what part of the project do you work on next? Just wondering...

@ fleet - That looks like a very solid workflow. How do you create characters after outlining? Do you make your characters just to fill certain roles in your plot? I find it an interesting way to do things since I've always created my characters first and written about them, whether the story is plot-driven or character-driven.

[MoPark]

I usually jump into script writing after that, assuming I had already planned previously the story and everything (which I guess is what I do before the data structures). My artist was on board early, so that's happening simultaneously. Music I like to take care of at the very end of it all.

[Fawn]

@Reikun: Ah, for paths, I separate my script into multiple files, then paste them into separate .rpy files. Ren'py can jump between .rpy script files, so you can make many of them and then connect them by jumping to labels. Here's a recent post about it: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =8&t=11841

[DaFool]

Has anyone ever experienced doing the art, only to find out in the programming phase that they don't really need a certain sprite expression/background? Or would that kind of situation only mean you had a poorly written script? O___O

Interestlingly enough, I always work on the art either beforehand or concurrently (It's only very recently that I experience a complete script-first and it's a bit overwhelming despite being a short project).

Usually halfway through I tend to get lazy so find some excuses to tweak the script to reuse some location or expression or music track. Because you always find you have more things to finish than you initially estimated. In the end, what's remaining are the unique pieces which just have to be made and not recycled.

I'm a firm believer that art shouldn't be wasted. Of course art you make 2 years from now will be better than art you made 2 years ago (that's why it's imperative to complete the project and ship it while the quality is still consistent, before the artist starts doubting herself, wanting to redraw everything)

[Reikun]

@MoPark - Okay! I see I like to do music at the very end too.

@Fawn - Thank you! That's really helpful *U* I didn't know ren'py could do that!!

@DaFool - Why do you work on art beforehand without having a complete script first? Do you already have an outline of the story before doing art? Or do you write the script around whatever art you produced first? I think that's a doable approach if you already have character/location designs finalized before making the story though....

[DaFool]

@DaFool - Why do you work on art beforehand without having a complete script first? Do you already have an outline of the story before doing art?

Yes, outline is a must (even if it just resides in ones head). Art almost always takes longer to complete than the script, so the earlier it's worked on the better.

Or do you write the script around whatever art you produced first? I think that's a doable approach if you already have character/location designs finalized before making the story though....

Come to think of it, all the works I participated adhered to strict minimum of locations.

There were only a few works that required CGs, and even fewer where the CGs were my responsibility. Those are the times where you can potentially waste time if you decide to illustrate a scene, since you cannot reuse/recycle it.