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For this project idea I have, I've been thinking it would be nice to try to bring it to a wider audience. Because I feel like visual novels in general are a great form of media; like books but better with the visuals, and can go into more depth than film. And the whole plot branch/choose-your-own-adventure-like structure gives it a more interactive feel, and make it like having multiple stories in one. But not enough people know about them at least outside of Japan, like here in the US. In fact most people don't even know what a visual novel is here and I have to explain it to them. It's like a cult media that I think gets a bad rap from generally being labeled just eroge or dating sims. I think this is unfortunate, so here are some ideas to make a visual novel more mainstream:


-English language, probably US-targeted. It can certainly be translated to other languages though if it comes to that.

-Avoid the eroge or dating sim label, that means no H-scenes. I don't think it should be a kid's game either though. Target audience like teenagers+.

-Try to make the routes more about the differences in plot and theme than just which girl the player pursues

-About plot branching, try not to make the choices too ambiguous... Think about how the player can logically conclude what his best option is given the information he knows up to that point. Give some hints. Don't just make a choice like randomly lead to death. And make sure its easy enough for them to backtrack if they do reach an undesirable end. You don't want to frustrate and annoy the player heh.

-Artwise: Maybe try not to have the other characters just standing facing you and reusing sprites like that all the time. Maybe use more CGs or just different poses, interact with the environment a little more. Animated sprites like the ones in Pheonix Wright would be very cool if possible, though not necessary. Also the style doesn't have to be specifically anime style... I think its most important for the characters to look different, have their own unique look and feel, fitting their personalities. Not just all big eyes, long hair, small mouth and nose.

-Storywise: Try to keep the writing concise. Avoid writing things not necessary for understanding the plot, characters, or theme better. At the same time you want a fleshed out story with some interesting turns that will captivate the viewer. Make them feel and think.

-Music: This can be more important than people think. I would just say try to come up with some good recognizable melodic themes and keep it varied for different kinds of scenes (like action, sad, pensive, etc.) Try to make it sound almost like it was orchestrated; not just like cheesy, obviously synthesized music.

-Sound: Any sound effects are recommended just for immersion. Voice I wouldn't say is necessary, though it would be interesting to hear an English-voiced VN.

-Genre: Doesn't really have to be any specific one. Element of multiple ones is best I think like adventure, romance, horror, techno-thriller, a little comic relief etc.


The point is we don't have to use the same conventions that most VN's follow, think outside the box a bit. Like how Ever 17 used what turned out to be differing viewpoints (I'm being vague here so as not to spoil heh), or how Steins;Gate used the cell phone for plot branching.
By the way I don't mean to say that mainstream is better. Just more accessible to more people. Quality of the development is still all-important.

And thats about all I can think of for now, feel free to give suggestions. Or let me know if you think this can work to make VN's more mainstream or if you disagree with something.

EDIT: Oh and one more thing, I was wondering about platform... Seems to me like all these new smart phones could have potential as a good, mobile way to experience and distribute visual novels. That's one of the main reasons my interest in VN-making is coming back now.



Since I can't make a signature...
my VN project idea: Dual Being
my fav five VN's: Ever 17, Tsukihime, Fate/Stay Night, Muv Luv Alternative, Steins;Gate

Nice initiative! I'll give my opinion on some things you said.

JRFive wrote: -English language, probably US-targeted. It can certainly be translated to other languages though if it comes to that.

I think English language is more used because we're targeting the whole world rather than just the US, even if there are still some people who cannot read it.

JRFive wrote:-Avoid the eroge or dating sim label, that means no H-scenes. I don't think it should be a kid's game either though. Target audience like teenagers+.

You can't tell people that they can't do that, as it's usually chosen because they like that specific genre and they're free to do whatever they want. Besides, it's not as though there are already MANY OELVNs out there which include hentai or that it's appealing to make such a VN for most people.

Also, if people really want to make a kids' game for say... children younger than 15 years old who can read and if they understand the limits of their audience as well, then why stop them? Sounds fun. Something nice for parents to give them, since lots of children don't read books and all.

JRFive wrote: -Try to make the routes more about the differences in plot and theme than just which girl the player pursues

I might be misunderstanding this, but it sounds like you're telling people to stop making dating-sims haha :'). Anyway, a dating-sim is NOT a visual novel, so that's a relief? If you meant a normal visual novel to have more plot in the routes than just 'date girl/guy X', then I fully support you~

JRFive wrote: -Music: This can be more important than people think. I would just say try to come up with some good recognizable melodic themes and keep it varied for different kinds of scenes (like action, sad, pensive, etc.) Try to make it sound almost like it was orchestrated; not just like cheesy, obviously synthesized music.

Yes music is important too, but not so important as to make people afford something which comes close to an orchestra ;(! It would cost a lot to hire professionals, while as long as the bgm is somewhat enjoyable/doesn't get annoying it should be fine as well. It's more like a cool extra if it gets better.

JRFive wrote:-Genre: Doesn't really have to be any specific one. Element of multiple ones is best I think like adventure, romance, horror, techno-thriller, a little comic relief etc.

Any genre works really, more is not always better if it doesn't fit. for example, most of the time things like humorous bits enter the story automatically, but that doesn't make it a comic relief story. It's also highly subjective/dependant on the person who assigns those genres.

Other than that your comments seem to be more of 'how to improve VNs' nature than really making it mainstream, but those are useful points nevertheless.

Edit: I think it's also a problem of just not being well known - which is something you fix by advertising and marketing instead of improving the product itself. If you don't see it, then it doesn't matter how good it is.

You can't tell people that they can't do that, as it's usually chosen because they like that specific genre and they're free to do whatever they want. Besides, it's not as though there are already MANY OELVNs out there which include hentai or that it's appealing to make such a VN for most people.

Also, if people really want to make a kids' game for say... children younger than 15 years old who can read and if they understand the limits of their audience as well, then why stop them? Sounds fun. Something nice for parents to give them, since lots of children don't read books and all.

I don't think the idea here is to stop someone. However, it is relatively testable and verifiable that hentai and eroge games don't typically become mainstream in the West because of a much more conservative culture. The OP is simply offering suggestions on making the game more mainstream, not guidelines to making a game in general.

I might be misunderstanding this, but it sounds like you're telling people to stop making dating-sims haha :'). Anyway, a dating-sim is NOT a visual novel, so that's a relief? If you meant a normal visual novel to have more plot in the routes than just 'date girl/guy X', then I fully support you~

Even dating sims need plot to some extent. I believe the idea here was to make more choices that advance the plot, instead of making a ton of repetitive choices trying to please a person, even in a dating sim.

Yes music is important too, but not so important as to make people afford something which comes close to an orchestra ;(! It would cost a lot to hire professionals, while as long as the bgm is somewhat enjoyable/doesn't get annoying it should be fine as well. It's more like a cool extra if it gets better.

There are a good number of resources out there (I cite Kevin MacLeod) who offer orchestrated-sounding music for absolutely free for a wide array of projects. TAM Music Factory as well. There's enough out there that you can avoid over-synthesized music.

Gear wrote:The OP is simply offering suggestions on making the game more mainstream, not guidelines to making a game in general.

OK, then I misunderstood. To me it just seems useless then though - you're telling the very minority of VN makers who make eroge to stop making eroge if they want to be more main stream, but then why consider eroge in the first place? Haha, sorry it's just weird to me.

Gear wrote:Even dating sims need plot to some extent. I believe the idea here was to make more choices that advance the plot, instead of making a ton of repetitive choices trying to please a person, even in a dating sim

Sure, but when you're making a dating-sim with a lot of plot... it kind of becomes a visual novel. Most dating-sims focus on stat-raising tasks so you can score high enough to date guy/gal X.

Gear wrote:There are a good number of resources out there (I cite Kevin MacLeod) who offer orchestrated-sounding music for absolutely free for a wide array of projects. TAM Music Factory as well. There's enough out there that you can avoid over-synthesized music.

You can avoid it, but not easily if you're not looking at free resources because you want to be more original. I wish I could ban the use of Kevin MacLeod's music, because I hear it every single time.

I agree it shouldn't sound crap, but it doesn't necessarily have to be fantastic/orchestra quality either.

And like I said, maybe focus on making VNs more well known first - that's the main problem.

Well, if you want to make an eroge, you're probably not too concerned about being 'mainstream' with your game, so the suggestions wouldn't apply to you anyway.

Honestly, VN's will never become well-known unless VN creators work to step up their game; an outsider only sees the market flooded with half-finished, not very thorough, or excessively sexualized games, and will simply walk away from the entire genre to return to Halo.

Well, true, OELVNs would have to improve in general so they're actually worth looking into if people want to gather a wider audience. But do keep in mind that to judge whether they're worth it, people need to know about what it is as well. How will they look at it if they don't know what it is or where to find it?

Besides, there are plenty of visual novels like Narcissu which are worth reading and not crap - can't you give those as examples? Or tell people that 999 is actually a visual novel with some other gaming elements mixed into it.

There are some examples besides OELVNs out there to give people a good idea about visual novels in general.

Personally, I feel as if there are a lot of things that can be done to make this type of game more appealing to the traditional western gamer. However, it seems that many developers here are afraid to deviate away from the Japanese Visual Novel model. There's nothing wrong with that, though I feel that it would be impossible to successfully breach the western market with dating sims, erotic games, or games with a very Japanese-inspired aesthetic.

I think there are many areas western-developed games can improve to make their game more accessible, including keeping an eye on the length of the game, providing other gameplay sequences to break up the story portion of the game, and ensuring the player can get their hands on the game as quickly and as easily as possible. I also think a mystery/intrigue genres are a good place to start to get western audiences involved. I plan on blogging about the changes that are most important in the coming week, so expect some more elaboration shortly.

I will say this right now, though: I think a crucial first step is to not brand projects as OELVNs. Original English Language Visual Novel, huh? Even if that's what your game is, I don't think it should be labelled as such. A lot of people in NA don't know what a Visual Novel is, for starters. To label something an OELVN implies that having such a game be in English makes the game even more obscure, which is definitely not the impression you want to give to an audience that is already apprehensive about the medium. You should even be hesitant to call your game a visual novel, as some westerners might associate it with the aforementioned dating sims and erotic games, which might turn them off before they even give it a try. I think Freebird games made an excellent decision in calling To the Moon an "Indie RPG/Adventure game", even though it only fits that label loosely at best. Simply calling your work "Interactive Fiction" could work if you can't think of any flavourful alternatives.

Percon wrote:*text which is true for games*

There is just one little thing wrong with all of that; visual novels are not games! They're books, advanced books, book+ if you will.

Want to create an alternative visual novel, with no harem or moe elements? Go for it. People on this forum, as well as a few others, have created games which fit these criteria. Once you've settled on an idea, make a topic.

I've been using the term "western visual novel" a bit lately. If you like that term, go ahead and use it. But if you want to create something more like interactive fiction, then use a similar term. Or make up your own. For instance, the people at Choice Of Games describe their western VNs as "multiple-choice games."

It's not a bad idea to read Scott McCloud's book Understanding Comics. It has a lot to say about creativity and art in general. And it has some things to say about breaking genre boundaries -- specifically, how to think about comics that fall outside of the "newspaper" and "superhero" categories. If you have a good library in your area, they might have a copy or two of this book.

And as you most likely know, making freeware and making commercial products are two rather different things. You can create something wildly experimental with a freeware game, and get a fan following. But with commercial products, you need to find an audience that will understand what you're selling, and which is willing to pay for it. And you definitely need to make it clear whether your product is going to be a story, a complex game, or something in between.

Please keep in mind that it's nearly impossible to change fandom with just one game. There will always be trolls who don't care. There will always be fan haters who dislike your content for trivial and obscure reasons. Deal with it. [Looks smug with sunglasses.]

o good comments.. Yeah I don't necessarily mean to impose all of these developmental methods or say they are the only ways to make a visual novel. Just ways I think that will help make it more mainstream like Gear said. Some of these I admit may just be my opinions for what I would like to see, trying to think as a consumer. And right it should target the world, not just US.

And I mean it can still have elements of a dating sim I suppose or just romance in general. Might be hard to make a VN without at least just a little romantic interest in my opinion. But the important thing should be the story.

To clarify about music, well it doesn't necessarily have to be orchestral. Just some light piano stuff can work too as long as the melodic themes are good. Like I think Tsukihime or Clannad has some good themes though simple. Muv Luv Alternative has some of the best VN music i've heard personally.

More interactive bits is an interesting suggestion. Like side games or how like trials work in Pheonix Wright. But I dunno, I don't think that should be necessary.

Also good point about how to term them.. visual novel, OELVN, interactive fiction, western visual novel, multiple-choice game, choose-your-own-adventure game... I would probably go with just visual novel or interactive fiction because they are the most self-explanatory, simple, and don't make them sound obscure like Percon said.

About genre, yeah it really just depends and can be anything. I agree that mystery would be good to have though.


I think to become more mainstream, visual novels will have to shake a lot of conventions like dating sim etc. But at the same time I don't want to stray from what makes visual novels I've played so great. Like I don't mean to shun the conventional Japanese ones entirely, just like borrow what worked for some of the best of them, if you know what I mean.


About making them more marketable, I think the problem is more a lack of more accessible, well-done games, than just making them more well known, though it is important to advertise them more as well. And about distribution, how about having like a free demo version with just one route? Then maybe a full version can be as low as a $1.00 smart phone app, for starters. I would like to hear opinions about this mobile platform. Or maybe a visual novel would make like a good Google TV app.

I've been thinking about this; here are my suggestions.
1. If you call it a visual novel, mainstream gamers will either ignore it or ask "what's a visual novel?" Percon posted some alternatives. Pick one.
2. The VN should be fully voiced, with the player having the option to turn the text off.
3. The sprites' mouths should be synchronized with the voices, and the sprites should blink realistically.
4. The VN should include sound effects.
5. CGs should be animated.
6. Art should be professional quality.
7. Advertise in mainstream gaming media, at trade shows, and every other place you think gamers would see the advertisement.

Anna wrote:

Percon wrote:*text which is true for games*

There is just one little thing wrong with all of that; visual novels are not games! They're books, advanced books, book+ if you will.

They're not altogether different. Both are virtual mediums that incorporate visuals and sound that boast a variety of outcomes based on the user's interactions.

Yes, there are some fundamental differences, but I think that playing up the "game"/interactivity portion of a visual novel is a good way to make it seem more appealing to westerners. While adding extra game mechanics outside of choosing dialogue options is obviously not necessary to make a quality experience, I believe it will aid in ushering new players.

But hey, that's just my two cents.

JRFive wrote:Then maybe a full version can be as low as a $1.00 smart phone app

A full visual novel for $1.00? Not gonna happen. I don't even want it to ;p. One route may be 5+ hours depending on the VN and one route could be enough for people, so that wouldn't really improve sales.

I think the idea of playing a VN on your phone is fun though, if executed well enough (read: not too much lag).

Percon wrote: They're not altogether different. Both are virtual mediums that incorporate visuals and sound that boast a variety of outcomes based on the user's interactions.

Yes, there are some fundamental differences, but I think that playing up the "game"/interactivity portion of a visual novel is a good way to make it seem more appealing to westerners. While adding extra game mechanics outside of choosing dialogue options is obviously not necessary to make a quality experience, I believe it will aid in ushering new players.

Yeah, games are more popular, but I want to write a book. If I wanted to make a game, I would be making a game. I don't want to make some crappy 'bookgame' hybrid thing with minigames which annoys both people who like reading books and those who like playing real games and, most importantly, me.

And they're definitely different. A visual novel is a book+, because it adds sound and pictures and now and then choices (which is minimal interactivity). In games the focus lies on gameplay, in visual novels, the focus lies on the story. The interactivity is just there to spice the story up.

There are some phone games already. They must not be doing too badly, since the Shall We Date people keep translating them...

Percon wrote:I will say this right now, though: I think a crucial first step is to not brand projects as OELVNs. Original English Language Visual Novel, huh? [...] Simply calling your work "Interactive Fiction" could work if you can't think of any flavourful alternatives.

No-one brands their stuff as OELVN, but the term has its uses in discussion between people "in the know". It's not meant to be marketable, it's meant to be self-explanatory and specific.

The term "interactive fiction" has been claimed by text adventures, so that's no good.

JRFive wrote:And about distribution, how about having like a free demo version with just one route? Then maybe a full version can be as low as a $1.00 smart phone app, for starters. I would like to hear opinions about this mobile platform. Or maybe a visual novel would make like a good Google TV app.

It's very hard to make money on a $1 smartphone app. Compared to a $20 PC release, you'd need to sell $20/$.70=28.57x more copies. I'd also focus more on tablets/e-readers than phones or TVs.