Dealing with your team

[Dakishimete]

I may a writer with some programming skills so I team up with an artist. I may have every skill I need except for programming and I find myself a programmer. I may also be a part of a bigger writing team.
The point is - how to work in team with people you don't know? How to explain them what you expect, fulfill their expectations, disagree with their ideas or bend yourself to their will? This is especially troublesome when it comes to a writing team, creating a story in your mind and having to bear with the inevitable changes. When I'm done with my current project that turned out to be very time-consuming, I may want to team up with some people so developing another game would be less difficult, but is it really easier to work in a team?

[Raalk]

I'd suggest that, if you want to be a writer, that you try and get a firmer grasp on the English language.
I also suggest that, if you are too scared about dealing with changes to a story, then you are a novice writer and you need to grow up. Nothing is perfect on its first go, and if you get adamant about your ideas with no backing, then you are just being a nuisance to your team.

[redeyesblackpanda]

I'd say that this varies. Working with a team, you can often accomplish things of greater quality (you might be a good writer, but your drawings might be terrible, you might be able to compose fitting music, but your grasp of plot might be limited, etc.) It's also possible to accomplish these things quicker, as you have more people working on them. There's only one thing... these aren't always true.

The requirement that must be met for these to be true are as follows:
You have to have a good team.

In order to have a good team, two conditions must be met:
You are skilled in working with others.
You team is composed of people who work well together.

In some cases, it's easier and quicker to do something by yourself because of this. That being said, the ability to work in a team is a useful skill that is worth building. Even with the best skills though, people are different, and people work better with certain types of people. It's important that you "match" your teammates, or fruitless (there's fruitful conflict which can arise from people well suited for each other, which is why I'm emphasizing "fruitless") conflict may hinder the team's efforts.

I've included an edit in italics, because I can't believe that I forgot to mention this. ^^;
Another thing to recognize is that teams go through certain phases: forming, storming, norming, and performing.
The secret to having a good team is to build one up to the last phase.
Forming is the point where all the members are new, and excited.
Storming is when conflict begins to brew, people may start to fight, and things may start to get bad. Some teams never leave this phase.
Norming is when the team members are starting to get used to each other, and they're able to work together.
Performing is when the team members know each other very well, and can perform like a well oiled machine. Team members understand each other and trust each other.
This is a process that has to be repeated for each new team that forms, which is why you see a lot of people stay teamed up. They've probably reached the performing stage, and it doesn't make much sense for them to redo the whole process with new members. Things are working fine, after all.

It sounds like in your last project, you were missing either one or both of these. I think recognizing what was missing will help you determine if you'd rather work alone, if you should improve your skills in teamwork (which takes practice), or if you just had the wrong people (so you'd want to network and find people that you work well with).

I wish you good luck in your future projects, and hope that this has been helpful in some way.

[ThisIsNoName]

In order to have a good team, two conditions must be met:
You are skilled in working with others.
You team is composed of people who work well together.

This is one of the main reasons I have a hard time working in teams. It's very hard to communicate what I see as a writer or as a programmer, and have it match up with what another person sees. The only suggestion I can give (mind you, this is coming from a near complete noob, so take it with a grain of salt) is to work in someone else's team first. That way you can see how both the leader and other team members solve communication problems, and see what they could have done better without having the pressure always be on you.

Another tip is to simply lurk around the forum, and note any teams and how they communicate publicly, even if the messages don't address each other.

[redeyesblackpanda]

I edited my first post because I forgot to mention some stuff.

As I understand it, some teams have public forums, so you might look for one of those. An important thing when working with a team over the internet is having the right tools. Wit my team, I use skype, Deviantart, LemmaSoft, the HellPanda forums, and email. There are also other good colaboartive services such as Google Docs and Dropbox. Staying connected and building relationships is important if you want to manage a team.

[Auro-Cyanide]

Working in a team can be a very fulfilling experience. Visual Novels are also multi-disciplinary and time consuming, so it makes sense. I've had both positive and negative group experience so I think I have some advice.

First and foremost accept that YOU CAN NOT BE IN CONTROL. This is important. Unless you are hiring people and paying them, in which the relationship is that of employee and employer, team members must be seen as equals, which means everyone has a say. If you are a writer, artists are not tools to fulfil your artistic vision. If you are thinking of them like that, stop it. They are people and they have their own vision and way of doing things. This will go for any craft. Treating team members as tools is not going to help you.

Start small. Every time I see someone trying to recruit for 6 or more positions all at once I want to face palm. Time difference and different schedules can wreak havoc on team work. Unless you are all in the same time zone and all in a similar part of your lives, people are going to be all over the place. It would be better to work in a pair or trio and get that to work, even if it means an extra work load.

Know the people you are teaming up with. I also face palm when people will just team up with whoever wanders past at that point in time. It's best if you know who the person is, have an idea about what their skill is like, what their work methods is like, have an idea of how they communicate, have an idea of what their ideology is. How do you do this? You talk them. Have a chat through PM or whatever, just talk to them about your project and what they think about it on a personal level.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

First and foremost accept that YOU CAN NOT BE IN CONTROL. This is important. Unless you are hiring people and paying them, in which the relationship is that of employee and employer, team members must be seen as equals, which means everyone has a say. If you are a writer, artists are not tools to fulfil your artistic vision. If you are thinking of them like that, stop it. They are people and they have their own vision and way of doing things. This will go for any craft. Treating team members as tools is not going to help you.

I could kiss you Auro-Cyanide. Perfectly said.

Why are you hiring me as your artist if you want to dictate every little thing about the characters' appearances? If they need an item or injury for plot related reasons, definitely fill me in, but as a writer you are NOT TRAINED IN VISUAL ART. I've trained for years telling stories and evoking emotions and moods with visual imagery, just as you have crafting words. Let me MAKE ART. Let me design and do what I'm good at. I'll ask for your input, I'll take feedback on the designs, but don't treat me like a MIND READING PENCIL. Yeah, you can't be in control. The art will NEVER look like what you had in your head. It won't look exactly like what I envisioned either. It'll be a mix of your ideas and my design and be better for it. You know TEAMWORK. Each team member in control of what they do best.

Start small. Every time I see someone trying to recruit for 6 or more positions all at once I want to face palm. Time difference and different schedules can wreak havoc on team work. Unless you are all in the same time zone and all in a similar part of your lives, people are going to be all over the place. It would be better to work in a pair or trio and get that to work, even if it means an extra work load.

Agreed. The bigger the team the more there is to go wrong. People get confused about their responsibilities, or they figure there will be someone else to take up the slack for them if they get lazy. The vision of the project can get murky as well. Too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the broth and all that.

Know the people you are teaming up with. I also face palm when people will just team up with whoever wanders past at that point in time.

I also face palm. Hard.


The real life equivalent of doing this is standing in the middle of a crowded street and shouting for volunteers to accompany you on a multi-month journey, then taking the first person that shoots their hand up and screams, "Dude, I'm with you!" Do you see, perhaps how that might result in a serial killer that will stab you to death when you go to sleep?

A blindly chosen team member can murder your project behind your back as well, through inaction, incompetence, or ego. And you have NO ONE TO BLAME BUT YOURSELF. I have FRIENDS I wouldn't let work on a project with me. They may be great to hang out with, they may be fun, but I know they aren't dependable or good at creative work. You need to pick team members for your project like you would pick team members for an Arctic expedition. You need to vet skills and talents, egos and abilities, dependability and reliability. You need to make sure that when things get rocky they are an asset instead of a liability.

[Dakishimete]

Thanks, I think I get it now and working in team doesn't seem as difficult as it did at first sight. My point is mainly that I treat my stories very personal and care for my characters, but I always thought that's what differs an artist from a craftsmith. Since my writing is still poor I couldn't be a craftsmith even if I wanted to.

[TrickWithAKnife]

Start small. Every time I see someone trying to recruit for 6 or more positions all at once I want to face palm.

Know the people you are teaming up with. I also face palm when people will just team up with whoever wanders past at that point in time. It's best if you know who the person is, have an idea about what their skill is like, what their work methods is like, have an idea of how they communicate, have an idea of what their ideology is. How do you do this? You talk them. Have a chat through PM or whatever, just talk to them about your project and what they think about it on a personal level.

Then you would Godzilla face palm if you viewed my recruiting thread.
I think I made almost all the mistakes listed in this topic. In fact, after real-life friends started volunteering, the team size grew to 13 people very fast.

This led to a fairly-active first week, very little activity in the second week, and apart from a couple of the Japanese members, it's pretty much just me now in week three.

The project isn't going to die, because I'll continue to the end solo if I have to. I'm the energiser bunny of motivation, and this project is something I believe strongly in. It's not just a game or a story, it's something that could help a lot of people who plan to come to Japan in the future.

And it is possible that some of the team members may return later, when progress picks up. Some of my real life Japanese friends do share my unstoppable motivation towards this project, but due to language barriers, they aren't interested in using the forum I set up to co-ordinate ideas.

Maybe I should have tried finding a mentor before finding a team. Any volunteers?

[LateWhiteRabbit]

I think I made almost all the mistakes listed in this topic. In fact, after real-life friends started volunteering, the team size grew to 13 people very fast.

I almost never work on projects with real-life friends. Ever heard the saying, "Don't go into business with family or friends"? It's true. Family or friends have a hard time remaining professional when working on project and they'll take advantage of their familiarity and friendship with you. They know you'll cut them more slack so they'll take all the slack they can get.

And what happens when it becomes clear your real-life friend isn't very good at their job on the project? Do you let them drag the project down, or do you fire them and risk your friendship? Your judgement may even become clouded. It might be easy for you to see the flaws in a stranger, but you're viewing your friend with rose-colored glasses.

I find the ONLY TIME working with a friend on project is successful is when you have completed a project with them before they were a friend. You meet as strangers and become friends over the course of finishing a project. You know the skills and dependability of the other person at that point, and you've witnessed they can deliver.

And it is possible that some of the team members may return later, when progress picks up.

Speaking from personal experience? Extremely unlikely. If they can't stay personally motivated for even the first couple of weeks when energy is high and the project is new, the chance of them coming back for the hard/slow/boring work later is effectively zero. And if they do come back? You shouldn't want them. Catching them back up to speed on the project is disruptive and time consuming, and they are likely to bail out again on you later.

[TrickWithAKnife]

Hmm, it makes sense. I tend to look at people with rose tinted glasses, especially if they are supportive of my project.
I guess I was hoping I'd see a message like "Hey, I got a bit busy for a while, but let's get going!"

Regarding the real life friends, that part isn't too bad, particularly with the Japanese friends.

But their roles are as voice actors, proof readers, and helping with the Japanese, but until there is a lot of script there isn't really much for them to do. They still bug me all the time because they want to take part though.

Also, where's the balance between recruiting good people, and being too demanding?
I have intended from the start that I wanted the final product to be free, because the purpose of it is to help people.
This also means I can't pay people. Although I wonder now if it's better to pay people and sell the final game.
But then it means my motivation is money, not helping.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

I guess I was hoping I'd see a message like "Hey, I got a bit busy for a while, but let's get going!"

They might tell you that, and they might mean it too. However, chances are they KEEP saying it. "Sorry I didn't return e-mails for those 3 weeks, I got busy, but I'm back now!" They'll usually keep dipping in and out of the project before vanishing for good with no word or explanation. Not worth your time.

Also, where's the balance between recruiting good people, and being too demanding?

There is no balance. This is something you'll be spending months or years of your life on. You can't be too demanding when vetting the caliber of the people you recruit.

[KomiTsuku]

Hmm, it makes sense. I tend to look at people with rose tinted glasses, especially if they are supportive of my project.
I guess I was hoping I'd see a message like "Hey, I got a bit busy for a while, but let's get going!"

Regarding the real life friends, that part isn't too bad, particularly with the Japanese friends.

But their roles are as voice actors, proof readers, and helping with the Japanese, but until there is a lot of script there isn't really much for them to do. They still bug me all the time because they want to take part though.

Also, where's the balance between recruiting good people, and being too demanding?
I have intended from the start that I wanted the final product to be free, because the purpose of it is to help people.
This also means I can't pay people. Although I wonder now if it's better to pay people and sell the final game.
But then it means my motivation is money, not helping.

It is an art that you won't learn without years of experience. Be prepared to be burned. A lot. The list of IDHAS's primary artists is long and has some ugly moments on it from both parties. The best suggestion I have is to talk with your people. Seriously. Learn about them and let them learn about you. You'll learn quickly if they are the type of people who will be there at the end with you.

Or you can pay them and release the game for free. Your motivation is still helping and you get a drastically lower chance of losing people. Not getting a return sucks (trust me...), but...

[papillon]

Paying people doesn't stop them from disappearing on you either.

[KomiTsuku]

Paying people doesn't stop them from disappearing on you either.

Quite true, but the ratio is a lower.