When to Draw the Line… Age Ratings?

[Goddess Viridi]

Hello! Um, this is kind of embarrassing but I found something a bit… odd in my script for Mnemosyne and I wondered how acceptable a scene like this would be in a visual novel (preferably one rated 16 and older).

There’s a bit of a spoiler below so I’ll just hide it…

The main character is a robot but discovers that she was once a human. She regains her human emotions but she’s still stuck in her robot body, at least until the point in the game where this scene occurs. On the route of her childhood friend, he wakes her up in the middle of the night with a kiss and proclaims his love to her. She pushes him away before he kisses her again and sleeps in bed next to her. They don’t touch in bed at first. In fact, she doesn’t even look at him because she’s so embarrassed and overwhelmed.

Later in the night, she has a bad dream, wakes up, and embraces him with a long hug in bed while she presumes he’s still asleep. He pulls her close to him and they stay like that the rest of the night.

So anyway…

What are your thoughts on scenes like this? How far should one go pertaining to scenes in bed to keep an age rating of 16? Also, what do you think of the concept of a human and something that isn’t human in a serious relationship? Is this acceptable for the age rating mentioned above?

I'm sorry... I just didn't know if I should cut this out as it relates directly to the scenes following after and is referenced to multiple times in the game.

Thank you for your time!

[Auro-Cyanide]

It WILL differ country to country, society to society, but for most people, yes that will be fine Nothing happens with them and by most standards that is extremely meek. While I consider myself to be very liberal, there aren't many around here would blink an eye at such things.
As for human and non-human relationships, that is also fine. Bicentennial man deals with some of those issues and it's PG http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0182789/

[Goddess Viridi]

It WILL differ country to country, society to society, but for most people, yes that will be fine Nothing happens with them and by most standards that is extremely meek. While I consider myself to be very liberal, there aren't many around here would blink an eye at such things.
As for human and non-human relationships, that is also fine. Bicentennial man deals with some of those issues and it's PG http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0182789/

Thank you so much! I didn't know how acceptable it would be to include something like that... mostly because I've only seen it done in "adult" visual novels... I honestly haven't played too many amateur visual novels so I didn't know if scenes like this were common or not. I didn't think the human/non-human relationship to be too much of an issue (especially with games like Hatoful Boyfriend) but I noticed that the characters that are non-human usually have human forms... Even in My Girlfriend is the President, Starship has a human form. If anything, the main character in my story goes from looking like a human to looking more like a robot as the game progresses... I was curious as to how actual metal and a human would mix ^^'

But thanks for your response! I may not have to rewrite anything if that's the case!

[Auro-Cyanide]

It WILL differ country to country, society to society, but for most people, yes that will be fine Nothing happens with them and by most standards that is extremely meek. While I consider myself to be very liberal, there aren't many around here would blink an eye at such things.
As for human and non-human relationships, that is also fine. Bicentennial man deals with some of those issues and it's PG http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0182789/

Thank you so much! I didn't know how acceptable it would be to include something like that... mostly because I've only seen it done in "adult" visual novels... I honestly haven't played too many amateur visual novels so I didn't know if scenes like this were common or not. I didn't think the human/non-human relationship to be too much of an issue (especially with games like Hatoful Boyfriend) but I noticed that the characters that are non-human usually have human forms... Even in My Girlfriend is the President, Starship has a human form. If anything, the main character in my story goes from looking like a human to looking more like a robot as the game progresses... I was curious as to how actual metal and a human would mix ^^'

But thanks for your response! I may not have to rewrite anything if that's the case!

As long as you are not showing full nudity (as in no censorship) or showing or describing sexual acts, you will be fine

[Crocosquirrel]

I'd have to agree with AC here. There's nothing untoward going on here, at least not the way I see it. If it's good enough for Robin Williams dramatic, it's certainly good enough for the rest of us No nudity, no graphic descriptions, no problem.

[wakagana]

Sometimes to make emotion rise with a story, you must take risks, which can also push some readers to an uncomfortable edge, and at that point they can either say. "That was a bit...out of my comfort zone." Or they can go "HOLY CRAP, THIS ISN'T COOL" and then they can badmouth it or say it was inappropriate or any aspect of that.

Personally, with what you had posted it was very very tame, at least for a first world non-religious oriented viewpoint. Perhaps some religious folks would find the idea of laying in a bed with another as wrong unless they are in wedlock, but aside from the rare occasion of people, I think stuff like that is fine.
putting in risque things can add a lot to your writing, it can bind together a stronger emotion between the characters and make the story deeper.

Now, there is a thick line between snuff, and romanticized writing.

[AnthonyHJ]

Personally? I'd say it sounds fine for a European audience. You might get a PG (or local equivalent) rating in a film that had that content, since it is more touching (i.e. heart-warming) than sexual.

One warning would be that it's not so easy for a US audience. For some reason, the word 'love' in a game makes the ESRB think 'T for Teen'. I remember (I wish I were making this up) working on a game where the publisher got fined for failing to disclose adult content because I'd used the word 'love' in dialogue; the line in question was 'Yeah, I love gelato.' and I think there was something political going on there, but apparently she should have 'cared for' gelato instead if we wanted our E10+ rating...

[gekiganwing]

Anything can be potentially offensive to anyone. I think Goddess Viridi's scene is an innocent moment between two friends, and I'd call it worksafe. But given an audience with a wide variety of views, backgrounds, and experiences, you can find at least one person who will find it disturbing.

[AnthonyHJ]

On the whole, I am not sure the ultra-conservative and ultra-religious audience plays many visual novels. If there's no actual sex, even a kiss is probably fine for the kind of people who would be playing. Given my rather liberal views, I can't get my head around people who would have an issue with two people cuddling in bed. Bert and Ernie (and on the other side of the pond Eric and Ernie) used to share a bed and PBS didn't cause the downfall of civilisation.

Just go for it. As long as you're not planning a Steam release, you can probably ignore the dissenting voices. On the other hand, do you think J.K. Rowling would have made so much money if Harry Potter hadn't been so controversial?

[Endorphin]

Err...
I had long discussions with friends once, if my other project, Déjà-vu, needs a 16-rating.
We decided this after while - not being fully sure as everything was rather soft but decided to play it safe.
You know, sex is heavily implied (as the characters don't make a secret out of it - and don't forget the visual foreplay!) and there is also a lesbian relationship.
I don't know if the RPG community is different, but nobody complained.

Laying next to each other and kissing, hugging, whatever - all of this happened in mangas made for young audience. (Damn, we wrote such stories when we were kids. /fail)
If you want to play safe, just say that you have some innocent romance there - if I'd play a game which is rated for teens and only get a quick kiss... well, I'd really ask myself if missed something in the end.
(I think that most people are fine with your scenario - if you rate too high these people might not play it and you could lose your audience.)

- R.

[Goddess Viridi]

I'd have to agree with AC here. There's nothing untoward going on here, at least not the way I see it. If it's good enough for Robin Williams dramatic, it's certainly good enough for the rest of us No nudity, no graphic descriptions, no problem.

Yay! Thank you! I honestly am clueless when it comes to stuff like this... I assumed that "bed scenes = bad content" no matter how mild and friendly it was ^^ But thank you so much!

Sometimes to make emotion rise with a story, you must take risks, which can also push some readers to an uncomfortable edge, and at that point they can either say. "That was a bit...out of my comfort zone." Or they can go "HOLY CRAP, THIS ISN'T COOL" and then they can badmouth it or say it was inappropriate or any aspect of that.

Personally, with what you had posted it was very very tame, at least for a first world non-religious oriented viewpoint. Perhaps some religious folks would find the idea of laying in a bed with another as wrong unless they are in wedlock, but aside from the rare occasion of people, I think stuff like that is fine.
putting in risque things can add a lot to your writing, it can bind together a stronger emotion between the characters and make the story deeper.

Now, there is a thick line between snuff, and romanticized writing.

Thank you for your response! I just didn't want to offend people if the scene was a bit too much... I wasn't thinking about hardcore religion at first... I was afraid that the average gamer would find it offensive. Haha, I can only hope my writing is decent enough to be considered "romantic" ^^' I'm really hoping it doesn't come across as a sex scene because that's NOT what happens in the story... I've been thinking of adding a few more pieces of dialogue to make that point clear instead of keeping it ambiguous.

Personally? I'd say it sounds fine for a European audience. You might get a PG (or local equivalent) rating in a film that had that content, since it is more touching (i.e. heart-warming) than sexual.

One warning would be that it's not so easy for a US audience. For some reason, the word 'love' in a game makes the ESRB think 'T for Teen'. I remember (I wish I were making this up) working on a game where the publisher got fined for failing to disclose adult content because I'd used the word 'love' in dialogue; the line in question was 'Yeah, I love gelato.' and I think there was something political going on there, but apparently she should have 'cared for' gelato instead if we wanted our E10+ rating...

It's actually good to hear another nation's perspective on it! I was only thinking from a U.S. point of view where there's a hint of a relationship going on and the game is automatically rated E-10 or T... ^ That's just sad! No wonder games like Rune Factory have to tone down the concept of love so far >,> From what you said, I'm surprised the games aren't rated T!

Anything can be potentially offensive to anyone. I think Goddess Viridi's scene is an innocent moment between two friends, and I'd call it worksafe. But given an audience with a wide variety of views, backgrounds, and experiences, you can find at least one person who will find it disturbing.

Thank you! I was afraid that the average visual novel player might find it a bit offensive... I didn't know what to think of the situation because I don't usually play romance visual novels unless they're mainstream like Little Busters so I have absolutely no experience with the amateur side of the genre. I really hope there isn't too much of a conflict... I guess I'll just have to wait until I release that part of the game! Thank you for your response!

[Goddess Viridi]

On the whole, I am not sure the ultra-conservative and ultra-religious audience plays many visual novels. If there's no actual sex, even a kiss is probably fine for the kind of people who would be playing. Given my rather liberal views, I can't get my head around people who would have an issue with two people cuddling in bed. Bert and Ernie (and on the other side of the pond Eric and Ernie) used to share a bed and PBS didn't cause the downfall of civilisation.

Just go for it. As long as you're not planning a Steam release, you can probably ignore the dissenting voices. On the other hand, do you think J.K. Rowling would have made so much money if Harry Potter hadn't been so controversial?

I am NOT planning on adding sex in any of my games anytime soon... especially this one ^^' I was scared that people might assume something more intense was going on by them sleeping together and I'll admit that this particular route is a lot darker then the other two. I suppose you're right... controversial philosophies usually attract the most attention... but the most hate as well >,> I don't think I'm quite ready for that yet...

Err...
I had long discussions with friends once, if my other project, Déjà-vu, needs a 16-rating.
We decided this after while - not being fully sure as everything was rather soft but decided to play it safe.
You know, sex is heavily implied (as the characters don't make a secret out of it - and don't forget the visual foreplay!) and there is also a lesbian relationship.
I don't know if the RPG community is different, but nobody complained.

Laying next to each other and kissing, hugging, whatever - all of this happened in mangas made for young audience. (Damn, we wrote such stories when we were kids. /fail)
If you want to play safe, just say that you have some innocent romance there - if I'd play a game which is rated for teens and only get a quick kiss... well, I'd really ask myself if missed something in the end.
(I think that most people are fine with your scenario - if you rate too high these people might not play it and you could lose your audience.)

- R.

Thank you for relying! I've seen similar scenes like mine done before but I didn't know how acceptable it would be... I'm not too sure of lowering the age rating, though. There's a torture scene and a few other things that might be over the top so I'll keep it for now and see what people think when I release the demo! Thanks!

[WatchJessieGo]

This is just my opinion, but I actually consider that to be a G-rated scene. XD Even if that were a sex scene that didn't feature nudity or explicit descriptions, it would be PG-13 stuff. I think you'll be fine. :3

As for the concept of a human/nonhuman relationship, I'm fine with the idea. For instance, I loved Chobits, as do a large number of other people. It's pretty much what everyone who watches anime/reads manga/etc. will think of when a relationship between a robot and a human is mentioned. XD

[Tsundere Lightning]

That's tame. I can't imagine why that would bump a rating up from PG-16. I'm sure that some other people can, but you're not marketing the game towards them.

[Tetiel]

I'd definitely say PG like many others. Nothing sexual is going on there whatsoever. I mean heck, occasionally sex is even implied in some PG movies. This sort of thing is generally acceptable even in a kids movie in both Canada and the US (I've lived for long periods of time in both and know how the movie ratings work).

I would not be too worried about this even in conservative nations where it is generally unacceptable to see even a man and wife in bed together. A good example would be the movie The Muppets which was rated PG in America. The main human characters are in a loving, long term relationship and are seen in bed together as well. Oh, and they frequently say they love each other and cuddle, I think. Here's a link to the certifications in various countries for the movie:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1204342/par ... tification
To save you looking up the terms that they rated the movie:
Malaysia - General Audiences
India - Universal/General Audiences
Brazil - General Audiences
Argentina - ATP basically means suitable for all ages.
Hong Kong - Suitable for all Ages
Mexico - Suitable for children over 6
Portugal and Netherlands - Suitable for children aged 6 and above
Sweden - Suitable for all ages

Generally countries are lenient, however, the UAE gave the movie a PG-13 rating probably for those scenes
http://dubai.explocity.com/movie-guide/ ... pets-1803/
I'm trying to find the rating from the Kuwait premiere, but not much luck. Honestly, I think you're fine, but if you're super duper worried, go with a teen or PG-13 rating to be safe.