Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#16 Post by Obscura » Sat May 19, 2012 2:07 am

I'm doing BxB even though it's the most difficult one out of all of them for me.

I have absolutely ZERO life experience being a male, ZERO life experience being a gay male, and women are 1000X easier for me to draw than men.

But I love the aesthetics of the male face and body, and I love same-sex stuff because it eliminates all the "baggage" I typically find I have when I read GxB or BxG. I tend to analyze too much and am very sensitive to how women are portrayed. I've played like a few otome games from Japan and the house was full of my never ending cries of "WHYYYY would she want to go out with this pervert?!?!" "WHYYYY can I only act like a doormat?!?!?" "WHHHHYYYY is this so rapey!?!?!" among other things.

I guess Yaoi can have it's own stereotypical problems, but I don't internalize them the same way I do when women are involved.

Also, guys are beautiful. Did I say that already? :roll:
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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#17 Post by Dakishimete » Sat May 19, 2012 6:43 am

GxB because since I'm a girl it's easier to write from a girl's point of wiev. I'm a female interested in both man and woman but I don't write GxG, I'm not really sure why.
I'd like to write BxB but I hate when a male character even in BL is so feminie that all you need to do is change his name to make him a woman and I'm afraid that's what I'd do. I simpl add slight BxB in my games with a female protagonists.

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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#18 Post by Yakkety » Sat May 19, 2012 9:46 am

I like to make BxG games, since I'm a dude myself so I kinda know what the main male character would be like etc...

But to choose what type of game you want to make, you will need a good storyline for it, for example, right now I'm working on a zombie apocalyptic story about a male character and his 2 guy friends and 1 girl friend, in that game you are just trying to survive, but in the meantime you will also learn love, BxG... Of course I could've also done it that you were the girl, and that you pursued one of the other 3 male characters, or even some other side story characters... But I like it when the player is a male character, since most VN players are male, and some of them can ''recognize'' themselves in the male protagonist...

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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#19 Post by Omnificent » Sat May 19, 2012 10:16 am

Obscura wrote:I'm doing BxB even though it's the most difficult one out of all of them for me.

I have absolutely ZERO life experience being a male, ZERO life experience being a gay male, and women are 1000X easier for me to draw than men.

But I love the aesthetics of the male face and body, and I love same-sex stuff because it eliminates all the "baggage" I typically find I have when I read GxB or BxG. I tend to analyze too much and am very sensitive to how women are portrayed. I've played like a few otome games from Japan and the house was full of my never ending cries of "WHYYYY would she want to go out with this pervert?!?!" "WHYYYY can I only act like a doormat?!?!?" "WHHHHYYYY is this so rapey!?!?!" among other things.

I guess Yaoi can have it's own stereotypical problems, but I don't internalize them the same way I do when women are involved.

Also, guys are beautiful. Did I say that already? :roll:
Oddly enough, I think the best bishoujo games from Japan are more progressive in their portrayal of female characters (many Type-Moon heroines + Haru from G-Senjou come to mind) than the top-tier otome games, with the possible exception of Hatoful Boyfriend (dumb as bricks but strong-willed protagonist) and The Second Reproduction (still kinda rapey but our protagonist is pretty much Oscar from Rose of Versailles). I think that's an area where OELVNs can really challenge their Japanese counterparts as opposed to imitating them wholesale.
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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#20 Post by GARLICBREAD » Sat May 19, 2012 3:25 pm

I haven't actually made anything yet, but GxB games because it's what I like most and can probably do best. I wouldn't mind making a BxG game either though since it could still be fun. I can't really work on BxB or GxG since I'm not a big fan and probably couldn't do it justice.
Omnificent wrote: Oddly enough, I think the best bishoujo games from Japan are more progressive in their portrayal of female characters (many Type-Moon heroines + Haru from G-Senjou come to mind) than the top-tier otome games, with the possible exception of Hatoful Boyfriend (dumb as bricks but strong-willed protagonist) and The Second Reproduction (still kinda rapey but our protagonist is pretty much Oscar from Rose of Versailles). I think that's an area where OELVNs can really challenge their Japanese counterparts as opposed to imitating them wholesale.
Well there's always Quinrose heroines, they're pretty tough too? But yeah a lot of the Japanese heroines from games are kinda like doormats.

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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#21 Post by Cidz » Sat May 19, 2012 10:24 pm

GxB games because at the time i didn't know of many english otome games, and thought i wanted to make one then! that and i love otome games. I have ideas for a BxG game as well as a GxB/G game (like a bisexual protag and you can go for a boy or a girl) cuz i think that would be intersting. But first, i must accomplish getting this game done! then i can move onto other things. ~

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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#22 Post by dracothrope » Sat May 19, 2012 10:47 pm

Currently working on a GxX(xX?) game, because the branches seem quite interesting, and I am sick to death of seeing plots where love triangles wind up with an either/or option only. XD I don't know if I'll get very far, but I like the prospect of having a game where you can choose a GxB, a GxG, or a GxBxG/GxBxB option that isn't just for the pronz, if that makes sense? I also love using it as a premise to build a world and cultures that don't view that sort of romance with a stigma, but I don't know how well it will translate for people who would be grossed out or annoyed by the prospect.

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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#23 Post by Auro-Cyanide » Sat May 19, 2012 11:11 pm

dracothrope wrote:Currently working on a GxX(xX?) game, because the branches seem quite interesting, and I am sick to death of seeing plots where love triangles wind up with an either/or option only. XD I don't know if I'll get very far, but I like the prospect of having a game where you can choose a GxB, a GxG, or a GxBxG/GxBxB option that isn't just for the pronz, if that makes sense? I also love using it as a premise to build a world and cultures that don't view that sort of romance with a stigma, but I don't know how well it will translate for people who would be grossed out or annoyed by the prospect.
I would also like a neither option :D You shouldn't HAVE to pick someone if you don't want to. My reaction to those types of things would be not to hurt anyone.

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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#24 Post by redeyesblackpanda » Sun May 20, 2012 12:44 am

I'm working on writing BxG right now, but I think I could handle the other everything except BxB.

Being a guy that's done his decent share of reading and playing books and games from a male perspective, I'm comfortable with BxG. (It's also what I enjoy playing, since I'm a guy :lol: )

I've read a lot of books from a female POV, and have written some short stories form that perspective. I'm a shameless fan of what everyone else I know calls "chick flicks." :lol: Even so, I'll admit to not really finding any of the GxB VNs that I've checked that interesting, but I think it was the quality of the writing more than anything else. That being said, I've really been touched by some books I've read from a female perspective, and I think I could handle it as well as BxG.

I've enjoyed reading a lot of shoujo ai, so I might have a chance at writing GxG.

I have absolutely no experience with BxB, so I'd feel the least comfortable with that. Maybe I'll try one of these days, but of the 4 pairings, it's the one I think I'd have the least success with. That being said, love is love, so maybe I'd have a chance. :lol:
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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#25 Post by LadyAvori » Sun May 20, 2012 5:09 am

Obscura wrote:
I've played like a few otome games from Japan and the house was full of my never ending cries of "WHYYYY would she want to go out with this pervert?!?!" "WHYYYY can I only act like a doormat?!?!?" "WHHHHYYYY is this so rapey!?!?!" among other things.
lol. I just thought this was hilarious! And I completely agree with it.

Anyway, I am more interested in writing GxB and some GxG for any romance, whether its the main story or just sprinkled in somewhere. And it's the same reason as several others have given. I'm a girl and writing from the female perspective comes more naturally for me.

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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#26 Post by Obscura » Sun May 20, 2012 7:11 am

@LadyAvori--I mean, I've played a little BxG from Japan and at least I could attribute any strangeness to "I guess I just don't understand how the male mind works." But for the GxB I couldn't come up with any explanation. Probably a cultural thing.

Oddly enough, I think the best bishoujo games from Japan are more progressive in their portrayal of female characters (many Type-Moon heroines + Haru from G-Senjou come to mind) than the top-tier otome games, with the possible exception of Hatoful Boyfriend (dumb as bricks but strong-willed protagonist) and The Second Reproduction (still kinda rapey but our protagonist is pretty much Oscar from Rose of Versailles). I think that's an area where OELVNs can really challenge their Japanese counterparts as opposed to imitating them wholesale.


@Omnificent--that's really interesting. I would one day like to do a GxB where the main character plays a dominatrix...still trying to figure out how this would work.
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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#27 Post by bellice » Sun May 20, 2012 7:23 am

GxG. Why?

1. I'm a bisexual female who leans heavily towards the rainbow side of the spectrum.
-> GxG is more interesting/exciting to me than the other genres (it makes me giggle like a little schoolgirl)
2. It has a lot of potential that simply hasn't been explored yet (I feel like I've seen every type of GxB relationship out there by now...)
3. The roles in gay romance aren't as set as they are in straight romance. The protag can be dominant/submissive/equal depending on the character you choose to pursue.

I like BxG as well, BUT:
1. I'm VERY picky when it comes to male main characters and I actually dislike most of them (*coughFate/StayNightcough*). I also find it hard to identify with males.
2. As I said before, the roles seem to be set in stone. Let's say one of the romanceable characters is an older businesswoman who has no interest and/or time for romance and generally thinks the main character is nobody worth her time. Interesting? Oh yes. But as a female, the appeal of this character is partly that she would act as the dominant part of the relationship. I like her the way she is and don't want her to suddenly change into a sappy, love-struck housewife. In GxG, it's absolutely reasonable that this character stays exactly the way she is, while the main character can be the 'submissive' one and do all those wife-y things. Obviously, this could be done in BxG as well, but I don't think I've ever seen a visual novel where the guy ended up staying at home to care for his woman. And even if he did, he'd still be the dominant one. BUT I WANT HER TO DOMINATE ME. (And no, I do not mean that the way it sounds...xD)

GxB is...okay. It rarely happens that I get as excited about a guy as I do about a girl witht he same characteristics, unless he is REALLY interesting. Like, if he's a sociopath or a really grumpy, older teacher. Then I'm aaaall over him. Fact is also that I find hot guys a lot easier to draw than hot girls. I probably like writing GxB more than playing it.

BxB...well, I've never tried it, but I remember having a few ideas I liked. And, you know, drawing only boys is appealing if it's so much easier for you.

But in general, I like writing all of the above. In the end, it totally depends on the story and the characters. Everything can be fun if you do it well. :D

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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#28 Post by Auro-Cyanide » Sun May 20, 2012 7:50 am

bellice wrote:2. As I said before, the roles seem to be set in stone. Let's say one of the romanceable characters is an older businesswoman who has no interest and/or time for romance and generally thinks the main character is nobody worth her time. Interesting? Oh yes. But as a female, the appeal of this character is partly that she would act as the dominant part of the relationship. I like her the way she is and don't want her to suddenly change into a sappy, love-struck housewife. In GxG, it's absolutely reasonable that this character stays exactly the way she is, while the main character can be the 'submissive' one and do all those wife-y things. Obviously, this could be done in BxG as well, but I don't think I've ever seen a visual novel where the guy ended up staying at home to care for his woman. And even if he did, he'd still be the dominant one. BUT I WANT HER TO DOMINATE ME. (And no, I do not mean that the way it sounds...xD)
I've had that issue with some games before as well. If the girl isn't pretty much submissive to the point of simpering at the beginning, she sure as hell will be by the end. Makes me want to hit things.

That said, Japanese otome games have the exact same problem which causes massive problems with player agency. Want the main character to stand up for herself? Not happening. She will apologise and she will like it. So many protagonists can just seem so... doormatty. Either the Japanese audience for otome games have a masochistic streak or the people writing them have no idea how to write a healthy relationship. Some of the paths I've seen make the abusive relationships in Twilight look like child's play. It's not all games obviously, but it's a disturbingly wide spread trend.

And I agree that it is a good opportunity for us to make games with more positive and varied relationship dynamics, no matter what genders are involved. It's one of my major goals in creating VNs is to have girl characters that doesn't make me want facepalm.

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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#29 Post by Argeus_the_Paladin » Sun May 20, 2012 8:14 am

Auro-Cyanide wrote: I've had that issue with some games before as well. If the girl isn't pretty much submissive to the point of simpering at the beginning, she sure as hell will be by the end. Makes me want to hit things.

That said, Japanese otome games have the exact same problem which causes massive problems with player agency. Want the main character to stand up for herself? Not happening. She will apologise and she will like it. So many protagonists can just seem so... doormatty. Either the Japanese audience for otome games have a masochistic streak or the people writing them have no idea how to write a healthy relationship. Some of the paths I've seen make the abusive relationships in Twilight look like child's play. It's not all games obviously, but it's a disturbingly wide spread trend.

And I agree that it is a good opportunity for us to make games with more positive and varied relationship dynamics, no matter what genders are involved. It's one of my major goals in creating VNs is to have girl characters that doesn't make me want facepalm.
I may be slightly stereotypical in saying this, but Japan - indeed a good portion of Eastern Asia at the moment my own country included, unfortunately - is not exactly a haven for feminism. Doormatty personalities is seen as a socially desirable quality. In return, the guys are still expected to be the one 'in charge' in both the romantic relationship and in running the household. Otome games simply reflect this way of thinking. That attitude is changing with the course of global integration, yes. But it will be a while - can't really say how long - until they (Or should I say 'we'?) comes to term with Euro-American standards in women's rights and feminism.

As an extra point of misfortune: It is commonly assumed in many internet circles that 'loser' nerds who can't really find himself a girlfriend are drawn to visual novels with spineless, doormatty female characters, if only because (i) it is a replacement for real relationship and sex, and (ii) it satisfies his ego and domination fantasy, something that really won't happen in real life. Stereotypical or otherwise, this belief is probably one of the leading cause for the (IMO) widespread belief that visual novels are for perverted nerds with questionable fetishes, below average personal hygiene and who the world are probably better off without them reproducing. On a slightly tangential note, that is also the reason why I would very, very much hesitate to tell people elsewhere on the Net that I actually perused a number of visual novels, OEL or otherwise, for fear of being lumped with these people.

It is an innate trait of the medium that, to many people, outshines the strength of visual novels as an excellent means for story-telling, I'm afraid.
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Re: Do you make GxB, BxG, BxB, or GxG? Why?

#30 Post by nyaatrap » Sun May 20, 2012 8:23 am

Auro-Cyanide wrote:And I agree that it is a good opportunity for us to make games with more positive and varied relationship dynamics, no matter what genders are involved. It's one of my major goals in creating VNs is to have girl characters that doesn't make me want facepalm.
Please do. Many Japanese creators just reproduce the same estimated plots to sell their games well. Even though they know they're hackneyed, but they don't change their position because of their selling :|

edit: btw, the yuri game Sugar's delight I translated into Japanese got huge attention (10,000 downloads) more than other free generic Japanese games. I think it proves how they fed up with reproduced Japanese games and want to see something different.

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