True endings?

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Maelstrom-Fenrir
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True endings?

#1 Post by Maelstrom-Fenrir » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:24 am

This is something that has been nagging at me lately. True ends should they exist? And if a game has a true end, should it be achievable at any run through of the story, or should the reader have to trigger flags by getting certain other end/ends first before the choices to get on that route become gettable?

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Re: True endings?

#2 Post by Sharm » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:30 am

I personally hate endings that require you to replay the game before you can unlock it. It breaks the sense of immersion and says loudly "you're playing a game!"
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Re: True endings?

#3 Post by DragoonHP » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:37 am

There was a small discussion about this topic some months ago. Here, you might want to read it.
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =4&t=13411

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Re: True endings?

#4 Post by Hijiri » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:10 pm

Sharm wrote:I personally hate endings that require you to replay the game before you can unlock it. It breaks the sense of immersion and says loudly "you're playing a game!"
But a lot of times, true endings contain facts and events that could outright ruin the game for people. Ever17 and 999 are good examples of this. If you could get the true end on the first playthrough, the whole game would be ruined.
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Re: True endings?

#5 Post by Zylinder » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:13 pm

I don't mind true endings when it's a mystery, and each path provides a piece to the puzzle. On the other hand, it sucks when after you've played all the routes, you get an ending that basically says "THIS is what should have happened." i.e, Instead of offering anything of real value, it basically says that all the other endings (And thus, all the time you spent playing it) are simply not true.

Persona 4 is a good example of this. Its 'true end' is basically an expansion of the normal ending. That is to say, it's perfectly okay for it to end where the normal ending was, and almost all of the loose ends are tied up. Then, through a series of further choice and action, they allow you to expand on the ending, thereby providing more insight and telling you who the real mastermind is. That's the kind of true ending you want.

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Re: True endings?

#6 Post by Anna » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:02 pm

Zylinder wrote:
Persona 4 is a good example of this. Its 'true end' is basically an expansion of the normal ending. That is to say, it's perfectly okay for it to end where the normal ending was, and almost all of the loose ends are tied up. Then, through a series of further choice and action, they allow you to expand on the ending, thereby providing more insight and telling you who the real mastermind is. That's the kind of true ending you want.
I disagree with this, and coincidentally discussed this exact topic with my friend earlier. Thing is, the true end here is just an expansion of the normal ending. What value does it have to get the normal ending instead of the true ending? Does it make it more fun? No, not really. The normal ending is boring compared to the true end and getting them actually becomes annoying, because x choices determine whether you will get the best ending or the not as great ending.

This only invites people to look up choices on Gamefaqs so they don't fail, because too much is at stake; if you don't get the true ending, you need to play the exact same game again to get it. With different routes or an entire different (unlockable) route leading to a true ending, this problem can be avoided because you're not just playing the same thing again.

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Re: True endings?

#7 Post by KimiYoriBaka » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:03 pm

Thing is, the true end here is just an expansion of the normal ending. What value does it have to get the normal ending instead of the true ending?
ah yes. my one complaint after reading steins;gate.

I think the important thing is really just that the game have some aspect to it that explains why you would have to see different versions to get the whole story. specifically, it needs something during each route that will encourage the player to keep going after the initial reading, so that it's clear that there is a good reason to play through multiple times.

in the other case, where the true end is always accessible, it's just a question of why that particular end is more significant than the other ones.

other threads about this in case anyone is curious of what else has been posted:
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... &hilit=end
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... &hilit=end

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Re: True endings?

#8 Post by Gambit74 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:24 am

I don't mind true ends in general, but when it comes to games that have pairings, I will almost always hate the canon pairing. One reason being is that the official couple is often predictable and/or just downright bland while the other one being is that it is never the pairing I think is best (Though that's entirely my opinion so I don't expect everyone to agree with me anyway).

Instead of having a true end, you can just leave it up to the player's preferred choice while satisfying them with the ending they're offered. Sometimes even the bad ending is the canon ending despite there being a good ending (I only know of one game like this though, and it's on the PS2. However, I remember reading somewhere that both endings are implied to be canon depending on how you interpret the third game).
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Re: True endings?

#9 Post by Zylinder » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:12 am

Anna wrote: I disagree with this, and coincidentally discussed this exact topic with my friend earlier. Thing is, the true end here is just an expansion of the normal ending. What value does it have to get the normal ending instead of the true ending? Does it make it more fun? No, not really. The normal ending is boring compared to the true end and getting them actually becomes annoying, because x choices determine whether you will get the best ending or the not as great ending.

This only invites people to look up choices on Gamefaqs so they don't fail, because too much is at stake; if you don't get the true ending, you need to play the exact same game again to get it. With different routes or an entire different (unlockable) route leading to a true ending, this problem can be avoided because you're not just playing the same thing again.
That is true. I personally never liked or understood why they had to put it in that way, seeing as I would have missed it completely, if not for online discussions. Hiding an entire section of the game simply doesn't make sense to me. I actually don't like true endings in general - I like ambiguity, lots and lots of it, though I do understand when it's done for plot purposes (i.e mysteries). The only thing is that I prefer the expansion way, if the alternative's the All Ye Other Endings Are Wrong way.

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Re: True endings?

#10 Post by Dakishimete » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:14 am

It depends. If you expect a sequel, true ending makes everything easier. You can always ask at the beginning of sequel for player's choices but it feels weird and means more work. If the game involves mystery, usually the true ending is the answer to all questions. True endings are sometimes needed but it's player's free choice to reach it or not.

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Re: True endings?

#11 Post by azureXtwilight » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:04 pm

True endings in Fantasia are for the sequels, so that it's easier to follow. While doppelganger is a mystery game, so I provide each bit of the puzzle in each paths so that the end revelation in the true end is more shocking, and people will say "So that's the reason of XX in that path!"
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Re: True endings?

#12 Post by Vegeluxia » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:57 pm

Depends on the type of game.

If it’s a romance that focuses almost entirely on said romance, then I would most definitely not want a “true” ending. I don’t want to try to wind up with a specific character just to be told “Nope. Doesn’t really happen”. On the other hand, if it’s a romance with a lot more plot, I wouldn’t particularly mind too much. It’s basically just showing me what would have happened if the choices weren’t up to me and instead up to the character themselves. Sort of adds an extra sense of closure, I guess.

Even if there is a sequel, I don’t think it’s entirely necessary for a true ending to the first game. If the two games are heavily connected, I should be able to figure out which end/endings were possibly the true ones without being directly told. If the games have almost nothing to do with each other, I don’t see why a true ending would matter too much anyway.

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Re: True endings?

#13 Post by Stainless_Steel » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:38 pm

True endings make writing for sequels easier since you only have to follow the events in that story line for cannon and they work well for mystery games since it can really mess the explanation up to have the mystery changing every time. However, in romances I prefer not to see them though, since inevitably someone will like the non-cannon paring more and be disappointed or there is the chance that the "real ending" will overshadow all the other ending making them feel somewhat pointless. :?

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Re: True endings?

#14 Post by wordlesswriter » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:05 pm

With romances where there can be more than one couple, no. True endings in a romance feel sort of silly. If those two ending up together is the "true" end, then why did you give me options in the first place? o__O;
But with mysteries and stuff, I'm okay with it.

...And what's with the hate on unlockable routes? D: I actually enjoy that sort of thing. Is it annoying? Sometimes. But it can help to streamline a game and keep a player from feeling like, "Whoa, waaaay too many options." Plus, if there's a back story to that character that you only learn in a separate route, it can be more meaningful when you replay.
It forces "completionists" like myself to play the game OVER AND OVER AND OVER. (You know, replay value.) I must unlock all of the endings! :evil:
But I can see how some people dislike them, I guess.
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Re: True endings?

#15 Post by yu1988 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:32 am

I personally don't really like "true end", "alternative end" or something like that. It makes the game feels less appeal to me, as i don't always have time to replay and finish the game 100%.
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