De-"MC"-ing your Main Character

[ThisIsNoName]

I was brainstorming just now and had an idea I thought might be interesting.

I had a problem with one of the games that I'm brainstorming in that it has 2 playable characters who both share a common storyline but have different details. I was having trouble figuring out how to tell both stories at once, without having to change perspectives. Add in the fact that each of them has different sets of obtainables, and the paths get really convoluted.

Anyways, this thread isn't about that.

One of the ideas that popped into my head was taking one of the PCs and making them an NPC. Then it hit me: the only thing they added to the story was their interaction with the other characters. Since most VNs are in first person, it essentially means that there is nearly no reason for them to exist, even though they were already a strongly characterized... character.

Then I tried doing that for other works I enjoyed. The first one I thought of was Naruto. Now just imagine the story was from Sasuke's point of view (I apologize in advance for those not familiar with Naruto, but it seems to be the example most would be familiar with).
Essentially, Sasuke's a fairly typical kid who just wants to excel, but every time he tries, his partner is able to show him up through dumb luck. That would probably be the most frustrating story ever. Or just imagine it from Rock Lee's point of view.

It gets ten times worse in VNs since, like I mentioned before, any interactions with any character other than the temporary new main character are completely wasted if the story is in first person. Add in the fact that VNs tend to be character focused anyway and what was originally an Oscar worthy story just became a poorly written mess just by switching up the main character.

TL;DR: Many stories fall apart simply by switching the main character.

Anyway, here are some discussion questions that came to mind:

Do you think that this is a valid way to brainstorm a story?

Is a story that can easily hold up regardless of the Point-of-View(POV) character automatically better than one that only "works" from one point of view?

Can you think of any works that hold up well when switching the main/POV character? Are there any stories that you think are bad that would've worked better from a different point of view or focusing on a different character?


If you have any other ideas, feel free to add them.

EDIT: also, a bit of an unrelated question: Is there any way we should tag a topic if it's meant for discussion instead of solving a specific issue, or is it best to leave it as it is?

[zankizuna]

I guess you don't have to Identify who you're playing as if both characters are together most of the time, maybe you can easily switch MCs if you had the view of the characters in Quarters facing each other from both edges of the screen
Maybe you can make it that way

[gekiganwing]

It's probably wise to ask questions such as "Whose story is this?" and "Whose story do I want to tell?" Depending on what person you focus on, your story can change quite a bit.

It's possible to end up with a boring-to-average main character who's surrounded by interesting people. This is not necessarily bad -- perhaps you want your MC to be ordinary. Of course, if you don't want your audience to identify with the MC, this can be a major problem.

[YonYonYon]

I had an idea about a game with 6 main characters and 6 love interests. I thought that it would be interesting to look how various characters will interact with various MC's

[Astrid]

I did something like this once, though not intentionally. I had an idea for a VN with a particular male PC that was sort of created to be a main character. He wasn't completely flat, but since I've thought about doing a prequel game from another perspective, it's made me think a lot more about his character. A story with multiple POVs(like Ever 17) can work really well for this!

[Loveli]

I don't know if this has much to do with the subject, but I tend to "fall in love" whit some of my characters... when that happens you simply start to see them in everything I do, I draw them everywhere, they appear as cameo in other stories and so on. Not to long ago I "fell in love" whit the main character of one of my stories (currently archived because of me wanting to have some experience first before doing that project), when I decided that archiving the story was the best for now I was really sad, I would not be able to write about my (how my brothers like to call him) "Chosen One". So when I started my next project I told myself I would refrain from putting him in the story, in the end I ended up doing it unconsciously and realized how hard it was to portrait the same personality if he was not the main character. I don't know how but I somehow got around it I builded up his character even more and made sure he had the same strong reactions I liked so much about him.

I think a character can work in any form, you just have to mold things a bit so they fit properly. Whit the Naruto example you gave about Sasuke being the main character, it could work, but the feel of the story would have to change to adapt to that because Sasuke is not as optimistic as Naruto and that should be reflected too, because that's part of Sasuke's personality. It could still be a good story if done properly, but it would not have the same effect the original has, even if the same events happened, because it would not be Naruto's side of the story, it would be Sasuke's.

This is totally unrelated but... :
OMG @Astrid! You joined lemma soft forum exactly one year after me! On the same date! I find that extremely funny! xD Jan 24, what a coincidence . (Also a coincidence... one of my best friend's name is Astrid too! )

[Destiny]

I know a few games that would be even extremly poor WITHOUT switching the MC.
Fahrenheit and Heavy Rain for example.
Those games LIVE from changing the MC regulary, showing what's happening on different places to merge them towards the end.
Heavy Rain got a desperate father, a curious reporter, a oldschool detective and a modern police officer.
It circles around murder on young boys, so the father shows directly how those murders happen. The reporter get's secret information since she just gets what she wants. The detective searches in the past by asking the families of the last victims and the police officer shows what is known about the current case.
And only by doing good with all four persons will show what is really going on.

"Alone in the Dark - The new nightmare" is also showing one story from two different views. The male route is with action, the female one is mystery. Both connect together to show what exactly happens.

Eternal Darkness makes even perfect use of it since that game has a storyline that plays from 26 BC to 2000 AD. With having exactly 12 Main Characters that show their part of the story throughout the game, constantly intermixing with that of the others (like appearing in visions, suddenly becoming enemys or talking to the others alive/as ghost). The "official" MC is Alexandra Roivas, but she simply acts as a narrator for most of the game, so you don't "feel" like she is more important then the others.

But I think, the idea is good.
If the story is absolutly important to be from the view of one special person then it should only revolve around them.
If it could be anyone or it even seems like multiple persons view is important, then changing would be appropiate.
The VN "Umineko no Naka Koro Ni" changes on the MC sometimes and has it's focus on different persons with every episode. Kind of like "Higurashi no naka koro ni" or the movie "Vantage Point".

[Kuroneko_rg]

Another game that uses(Some might say abuse) of MC switching is the Call of Duty: Modern Warfare saga.

The three parts of the saga constantly switches you from character to character in order to cover multiple events of the story.
It might be bad/worst at times, and good/great at others but I can't imagine these games without using such system.

On a personal case, I have one story that uses this system, but more for necessity than a will as I found myself forced to switch
characters in order to slowly lead the plot to a final resolution.

[Dim Sum]

Anyway, here are some discussion questions that came to mind:

Do you think that this is a valid way to brainstorm a story?

Valid? yes. Solid? I think talented people get away with it but IMO regardless of talent, it still produce wishy washy inter-changeable characters.

Is a story that can easily hold up regardless of the Point-of-View(POV) character automatically better than one that only "works" from one point of view?

Nothing is "automatically" better until fans "automatically said so".

Can you think of any works that hold up well when switching the main/POV character? Are there any stories that you think are bad that would've worked better from a different point of view or focusing on a different character?

I think lots of stories hold up well but few stories really "switch".

It's one thing to change visuals or plot direction or deus ex machina gifting. Those are too common.

True switching however from my PoV has to make main character irrelevant.

Like, if you just switch MC to other MC, that's not switch. That's passing. Yet that's what many examples end up become and they are often praised but it doesn't quite have impact of a MC dying and moments later the other fellow die and you as viewer for a brief moment see the other fellow as the one being shot cause the MC has been shot already.

I don't really know though from actual creator experience.

To me, it's tricky challenge. Great at switching MC PoV authors are those who dare to put bad but get away with invisible/audience not realizing effect/audience post-hindsight effect so bad is a case of good in this case.

Example, I hate Memento but Memento switches to different PoV without the audience really having to think "Oh that gal is the MC now". You as audience simply know and follow.

That's cause director is highly talented and because of highly talented director, bad idea about reversing movie sequence becomes considered intellectual masterpiece by many movie lovers. Same sequence of effects happen in The Prestige (same director), Fight Club plot twist, Titanic, Terminator 2, list goes on and on but most of these greats don't bother De-"MC"-ing cause they don't need your respect for MC to keep you watching/reading.