2D Vs 3D characters

[TrickWithAKnife]

I'm trying to get the player to experience life in Japan, in many places and situation.
Having the same few characters would be weed to say the least.
They have to visit many shops for example. There are only so many ways you can change the same person before it looks lazy.

[Kuroneko_rg]

If the 3D models are flawless then I have no problem with. Otherwise it would pale in comparison to 2D by far.
Making fully animated sprites will probably cost less effort and be much more appealing to the player.

... On a second thought, fully animated sprites might actually distract the player and prevent him/her from enjoying the story.

Ok, next question. If you had a lot of ideas that would require a large number of minor characters that would only appear briefly, would you rather cut the scenes when they appear, or try to create them anyway (using 2D)?

How would you feel if you were the artist and the other team member(s) told you they want to add a lot of characters that will only appear briefly?

Visuals vs content is also an issue for me.

I'm not much in favor of showing characters that no one will remember. If they, however, appear in some sort of important scene,
I might consider to do extra sprites, otherwise I wouldn't even think about it.

[redeyesblackpanda]

It's pretty standard practice to not show very minor characters. Besides the resources issue, character sprites can tell the reader what characters are important, and who they should focus their attention on. I haven't played too many KNs, personally, but I suspect that the same holds true in many of them.

Even the greatest of classics had characters that appeared without sprites. Clannad, for example, had voiced characters that were never shown, even when they spoke directly with the main character.

[Kuroneko_rg]

I'm trying to get the player to experience life in Japan, in many places and situation.
Having the same few characters would be weed to say the least.
They have to visit many shops for example. There are only so many ways you can change the same person before it looks lazy.

I tried to download your game many times (Crappy internet connection) so I don't have a clear picture of what you want to do.
If many, many people is really needed to be shown, then is probably better to actually spent time on them. It could otherwise kill
the feeling of the whole game.

[Sharm]

I don't think it'd be a problem to have generic sprites the way jrpg's have generic NPC's. Any gamer is preconditioned to accept it without thinking. I also agree with Auro-Cyanide's suggestion of a doll character that gets a generic pose and then a bunch of options for eyes, nose, chin, ect. Don't underestimate how different a person can look with just a different pair of eyebrows.

[Kuroneko_rg]

Clannad, for example, had voiced characters that were never shown, even when they spoke directly with the main character.

Funny thing, is that Clannad has backgrounds filled with students. I was actually shocked when I saw the classroom or the
cafeteria. As my experience in VNs is overall limited, I don't know if there are many games that does so, so I might just being
impressed over nothing

[TrickWithAKnife]

I can't understand why anyone would want to make their precious game the same as everyone else's.
Isn't that a bad thing. I'm not saying 3D is better, I was just surprised to hear people say things that to me sound like "it's done this way because that's how everyone else does it."

I wouldn't want to copy anyone. If I did, I'd just make another forgettable word game for teaching Japanese.

Minor characters are important in particular games, but not important in others.
If you made a game set in Japan, and all the Japanese people looked the same, could that been misinterpreted as being racist?

[Akjosch]

Well, there was a time that I was playing around with using 3D models for Culina: (click to open the full-size)


But I personally found that the 2D versions helped in a lot of areas, especially in showing emotion and in general looking nicer.

Though to be fair, the 3D picture looks like something you'd do to check for normal vector irregularities, not how the same character would look like using a proper studio light set and material/skin/hair shaders. It's also standing in the unattractive and unnatural "default" pose (by necessity: it's meant to make the design and rigging of the character easier, not to look good).

[Auro-Cyanide]

Are you doing the art for the game?

If not it might be helpful to give a monetary value to what you are asking so that there is a consequence for asking it, which might help weed out unecessary characters. Let's say each doll base costs $70. Each character after that based on the base costs $40 for a new outfit, new hairstyle and some minor pose changes. How many would you buy?

And it's less a 'Do it because everyone else is doing it' and more 'There is a very good reason why they are doing it in the first place'.

[MaiMai]

I can't understand why anyone would want to make their precious game the same as everyone else's.
Isn't that a bad thing. I'm not saying 3D is better, I was just surprised to hear people say things that to me sound like "it's done this way because that's how everyone else does it."

I wouldn't want to copy anyone. If I did, I'd just make another forgettable word game for teaching Japanese.

Minor characters are important in particular games, but not important in others.
If you made a game set in Japan, and all the Japanese people looked the same, could that been misinterpreted as being racist?

Imitation (and I use this word loosely in context) occurs because people like using what works that they see in other things. But I also think it's kind of a stretch to say that people WANT to make their game the same as everyone else especially when it comes to using 2D art assets which quite frankly could be very versatile in style if there were more artists that don't necessarily draw anime/manga for VNs.

As for that last part Japanese people have shared features (dark hair and eyes), but it doesn't mean they themselves would look the same. Just thinking they look the same would disregard other distinguishing looks such as hair styles and fashion (the question is kind of weird though are you talking about background characters or main characters for a game?)

[TrickWithAKnife]

This discussion is very interesting.
Thanks for all the hassle you'll save me later by discussing this.

I'd like to give a recent example.
Last week I wrote a very brief scene where the main character is in an elevator, an a stranger asks them in Japanese which floor they would like.
Ironically I had the same conversation word for word 10 minutes later.
Anyway, in this situation, it would be strange to use an existing character, so there would either have to be a disembodied voice, or a new character created. Cutting the scene is not an option, as it's too useful and realistic. Making slight changes to existing characters might be a bit obvious.

What would you do?

[Akjosch]

I'd like to give a recent example.
Last week I wrote a very brief scene where the main character is in an elevator, an a stranger asks them in Japanese which floor they would like.
Ironically I had the same conversation word for word 10 minutes later.
Anyway, in this situation, it would be strange to use an existing character, so there would either have to be a disembodied voice, or a new character created. Cutting the scene is not an option, as it's too useful and realistic. Making slight changes to existing characters might be a bit obvious.

What would you do?

Show the back of the speaker's head (figure looking away from you).

Use a generic character.

Rewrite the scene so it is a recurring - though not important - character.

As a side note, "it's realistic!" is a bad excuse to include a scene. A scene should have a purpose - just being there for the sake of being there isn't one.

[Victoria Jennings]

Yeah, in that case, I'd definitely use a disembodied voice. U:

As a side note, "it's realistic!" is a bad excuse to include a scene. A scene should have a purpose - just being there for the sake of being there isn't one.

I'm fairly sure he's including it because it includes some good vocab and is a relevant means of testing the player's skills. U:

[nyaatrap]

When you respond, I'd also like to ask if you are an artist, and if you are opposed to 3D is it because it's not what you're used to?

3D artists are also the top 2D artists. They first designs in 2D, then make them into 3D. Required skill is beyond far. Therefore, I don't suggest to use 3D before you mastered 2D. (Of cause, I'm saying from the professional side - not lazy amateur ways)

[TrickWithAKnife]

Yes, it's very relevant. That's why I mentioned that I had the exact same conversation (in Japanese) 10 minutes later.
Cutting the scene means compromising the game itself, so I won't consider it.
Because of where this and many other things happen, turning that random person into a recurring character is possible, but very weird. This is a city of 13 million people. If you keep seeing the same people over and over, it's convenient, and extremely unlikely.
I want the player to feel alone sometimes. Familiar faces destroy that feeling.

My methodology is terrible. I decide what I want, then figure out how to do it.
Maybe it's better to figure out what I can do, and stay within those limits.
Ugh, even saying it makes my skin crawl.