Feed back for a idea and concept. East vs West

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Yojimbonoku
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Feed back for a idea and concept. East vs West

#1 Post by Yojimbonoku »

Hey,

I'm new to the forums, but I've been playing VN for some time now. I've been brainstorming up an idea for a game, but not sure how well that idea would sound to others. Asked a few friends and they said it sounded good. Would like some feed back on the idea and if your really interested and you want to help me make my idea tangible PM and well discuss more in detail and see how you can help. The history part is a little long, so if you just want the synopsis of it, Japan became super powerful and was able to gain control of most of the Pacific which lead to conflict with the European powers. A great war began with battles all across the world, the first true world war, except the year is mid 18th century.

History

The start point of the story is a war between East and West. The history part cuts all the way back to Japan's Sengoku period, this period was cut short by a Buddhist uprising lead by peasants that overthrew the daiymos and changed the social structure in Japan. Because of the new stability Japan was able to focus outwards. Japan began a rapid colonization of the Northern islands which spread west into Eastern Siberia and further inland. They expand Southward past the Philippines and into the Indonesia islands. They were able to subjugate korea, and divide china into four separate kingdoms and subjugated them too. Then came the early Russo Japanese war which ended in a stalemate, but gave Japan the necessary experience and knowledge to fight Western powers. The first conflict was a proxy war in India, because the Buddhist clergy wanted to keep the birth place of Buddha and his teaching free from Christian preaching. Great Britain colonization of India was bloody and slow. The British Empire recognized the threat Japan posed to its colonies. Soon Great Britain began a massive military mobilization on all of its colonies in North America, Africa, Australia, and Asia. So began the great war of colonial control. Each side became xenophobic and harden by the violence each side faced. Japan used this war to increase its control and centralization of power over its vassals and subjects. It began a crusade against the Western powers in South East Asia, liberating many of the small nations from their colonial rulers, but were forced to submit to the greater Pacific power. Thus the creation of the first real super state. Japan was able to create the worlds most culturally diverse and largest powers in the world. With this new order came fear from the West, and with Britain leading the way was able to gather the rest of the Western nations to support the idea of a European Confederacy. A decentralized government but was able to promote European economic and military cooperation. Soon it was two great super states warring against each other.

Story

The current story will take place in North America, starting in the Great Basin Desert. The Great British Empire began a rapid colonization effort once they heard the Japan started making a foot hold in North America on the Western coast. With the threat of Japanese soldiers conquering North America and the massive increase in British military forces, the colonies never rebelled against their European owners. In fact they became quite loyal to their kings and queens because the protection they granted them against the Japanese. The battle line in North America is drawn across the deserts in the Western parts.The harsh desert condition makes it hard to move massive armies across. A war of attrition began, with both sides digging and setting up defensive positions. The western front has turned into a standstill. This is were the story begins for our protagonist. The protagonist is a German mercenary is sent to the desert to hunt down a sniper. The sniper has been dwindling away a regiments chain of command, and they fear it will cause a break in the North American line. The mercenary goes out into the desert into nomanland to find and kill the sniper. He fails and is forced on a long journey through Native american territories, and even into New Kyoto (Sandiago).

How the story plays out

My coding skills are not amazing but I can put together a story with little to no problems. But, what I would like to do with the game is make it kind of like a survival game with multiple paths and outcomes. Were who you choose to trust and distrust can cause new options to open up or get you killed. Also thinking of kinda making it like a Quentin Tarantino movie with a spider web of stories that all intertwine and a non parallel story line.

Who the game would be for

The game is for people who want a story around politics, war, history, and crime solving(a game of cat and mouse trying to find clues and what not, maybe not the best way to phrase it :oops:). It may have some romance but I wouldn't put it as a central theme.

Plot holes I have already noticed

The biggest plot hole I see right now is trying to convince you that Japan has become a nation that likes to colonize and spread. Japan historically has been very keen on separating itself from the rest of the Pacific powers. So it would be hard to justify why Japan would want to spread its people and merge with other states for a more universal approach. What I have so far to cover this hole up is a incident with a European power (most likely Portugal) which caused a great deal of suffering and lose on the Japanese side. So the leader had a vision that all of the Pacific would be rap by the European men. So he took it as his personal goal to protect the Pacific against the Western power by bring all Pacific nations under his control.

Second plot hole is history. History is long and very detailed so I can see a few points where my story may stray from history, but that will probably be impossible. How do I fix it, I make my damn own history book. After a certain time period in the history of this story every thing has changed which gives me full power in doing something very different than in the History book. Like colonial slaves running west instead of North merging them with the Native American confederacy.

Last is weapons, there will be guns and swords in the story, lots of them. And historically certain weapons were not that advance like the rifle, which the sniper needs to kill his target. Also how can swords be any effective against lines of muskets and artillery. To fix these holes the Japanese began their own research and development that was on par with the Europeans. This lead to a fast arms race which means faster development of weapons. And for the swords, Japan was able to make better armor with all the mines in Eastern Siberia, so their samurai are harder to take down.

How you can help

I could use as much feed back as possible, good or bad, tell me if you think it is stupid or awesome. If your a history buff please tell me if you see any big plot holes or if you are japan guru tell me what would not make sense. And if you want to actually make this a reality I can use plenty of artist, creative thinkers, and programmers.

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EroBotan
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Re: Feed back for a idea and concept. East vs West

#2 Post by EroBotan »

let's just set your world in an alternate universe and see those plot hole wiped out automatically :D
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Dim Sum
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Re: Feed back for a idea and concept. East vs West

#3 Post by Dim Sum »

P.S. Not history buff. Not from Japan. Just quickie feedback.

Elephant out of the room first. Ambitious project but lacking artists esp. for this type of story? Very dangerous. Biggest plot hole of all.

The biggest plot hole I see right now is trying to convince you that Japan has become a nation that likes to colonize and spread. Japan historically has been very keen on separating itself from the rest of the Pacific powers. So it would be hard to justify why Japan would want to spread its people and merge with other states for a more universal approach.

Simple globalization.

Problem is not why Japan would cause Sengoku period was interrupted.

Problem is who ruler is and why they would do so and how advanced you want your economic model to sound like.

Remember: China shifted the same way in order to compete globally. Heard that Japan only seclusive cause they remained island and historically was protected by their tsunamis and storm gods much like Russia. Cause Japan succeeded past that, it's a non-factor at the basic level much like Russia expanded into Cold War.

What I have so far to cover this hole up is a incident with a European power (most likely Portugal) which caused a great deal of suffering and lose on the Japanese side. So the leader had a vision that all of the Pacific would be rap by the European men. So he took it as his personal goal to protect the Pacific against the Western power by bring all Pacific nations under his control.

...more like what you have to reveal. Common plot cheat: Reveal conspiracy means common audience ignore major historical inaccuracies.

Bigger issue: Why would Portugal of all countries caused great deal to mega-superpower that managed to unite the Pacific? Wouldn't Pacific nations be historically much tougher to unite under one banner?

Buddhist indoctrination and limitations not as appealing as Christian saviour plus puts whole "worlds most culturally diverse" tag in jeopardy. Just look at basic history of the Americas. One thing to rewrite history, much harder to white wash basic human social darwinism.

Also how can swords be any effective against lines of muskets and artillery.

Simple.

Remember Vietnam fairy tale against US? Whole thing about jungle?

Add that plus lots and lots of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Churchill

Just cause common plot cheat is sword fu and magic armor doesn't mean history doesn't have extraordinary examples.

Course there's nothing wrong with this:

And for the swords, Japan was able to make better armor with all the mines in Eastern Siberia, so their samurai are harder to take down.

Just preferred gundams over better armor tis all.

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Re: Feed back for a idea and concept. East vs West

#4 Post by Yojimbonoku »

@Dim Sum, thanks for the feed back

For the First Big pot hole, ya its pretty damn big, but thats why I want to only start out with just one story in one location. Most of the scenes will be in the desert or in New Tokyo. Lucky for me I can do most of those (although they probably wont be works of art, but they will look okay). Except for the characters, I'm either going to need to hire someone or get a very nice and generous artist to donate some ;).

For the reason why Japan did it and who did it (should have included it in the first post) was the Ikko-ikki movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikk%C5%8D-ikki. A historical movement by peasants to rid Japan of its lords and Daimyos and was backed by a particular militant Buddhist monk group who believed in the idea of uniting the Pure Land.

And the reason for it being Portugal is because Portugal was the first European power to make contact and establish trade with Japan. And the reason I'm leaning on a incident between the two is because Portugal was also sending missionaries to Japan, and because the Ikko-ikki were in power. Instead of just stopping them from entering their island, they killed and slaughtered all the traders and missionaries. This caused Portugal to retaliate and destroyed some port city (not to sure on exactly what happen but that's the just of it). Japan then united against the influence and used its amass fleet to destroy the few merchant ships that Portugal used to attack them with.

Thanks again for the feed back.

P.S. I too would prefer gundams but for the sake of keeping the playing field even it would be overkill :D

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Re: Feed back for a idea and concept. East vs West

#5 Post by gekiganwing »

Welcome to the forum, Yojimbonoku. Your idea is ambitious. Though I have to admit that I'm worried for two reasons...

1. It's difficult to start and finish a large-scale story. This is true whether you work on it yourself, or whether you try to form a team. It's also difficult to justify spending time on it unless you choose to sell it as a commercial product. It takes perseverance and passion to finish even a fairly simple visual novel. I don't want to be discouraging, but I want to make sure you're aware how easy it is to get bogged down in the middle of a story.

2. You provided a lot of details on the politics and wars, but didn't say much about characters. It would be good to know more about who your German mercenary is, what the person hopes to achieve, and what obstacles the person will face. Also, surely this character will have individual people as foes and allies. I say this because unless you're creating an abstract game about war, you will probably benefit by focusing on the people involved rather than the nations and their circumstances.

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Re: Feed back for a idea and concept. East vs West

#6 Post by Yojimbonoku »

@Gekiganwing, thanks for the feedback, and yes I know it is ambitious and very difficult task. But I do have a plan to overcome such a large idea. Not sure if its done often but I was thinking of making multiple version of the game. Like an alpha beta and then release. My end goal is to have for commercial use. The first go through will be the back bone of the this work. With characters plot a very simple VN that I should be able to do. Then I would like to see if I could get a team together and put some meat on it expand on story diverge into multiple charters and scenes. Acquire feed back on it and then try for a commercial product filled with music, some mini games, full travel, and much more.

For characters, since I just started brain storming up the story I haven't put a lot of development into characters. The main character is going to be a odd combination but I think it could work. He's as German as it can get when it comes to work and self discipline. Also he can be goofy in the since of how he acts and how he handles problems. In characters that might be recognizable, Spike from Cowboy Bebop and Tiger from Tiger and Bunny. Very odd combination but I think it would be interesting trying to develop.

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Re: Feed back for a idea and concept. East vs West

#7 Post by Dim Sum »

For the reason why Japan did it and who did it (should have included it in the first post) was the Ikko-ikki movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikk%C5%8D-ikki. A historical movement by peasants to rid Japan of its lords and Daimyos and was backed by a particular militant Buddhist monk group who believed in the idea of uniting the Pure Land.

Ikko-Ikki would be very interesting. Extremely risky but interesting.

IMO main thing to be tackled is how to make Ikko-Ikki globalization "liberal" and avoid it from sounding like Pacific was united by the equivalent of an Ashigaru Union.

You fix that. You fix global scenario of disloyalty.

Remember http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo and how that led to Sarin Gas Subway Bombing.

If you can't dodge that in plot, you better end up hoping for anime action plot than political VN cause strong chance you end up presenting equivalent of Middle East country conquering world and being considered pariah of diverse thinking.

Not that you can't have fans esp. if you follow Code Geass style which you seem to be with multiple versions thing. (for those who did not know; Code Geass not just anime in manga. Many gaidens to point that it might as well be VN in manga form)

...just that without fixing this, content is on extremely flaky ground.

And the reason for it being Portugal is because Portugal was the first European power to make contact and establish trade with Japan. And the reason I'm leaning on a incident between the two is because Portugal was also sending missionaries to Japan, and because the Ikko-ikki were in power. Instead of just stopping them from entering their island, they killed and slaughtered all the traders and missionaries. This caused Portugal to retaliate and destroyed some port city (not to sure on exactly what happen but that's the just of it). Japan then united against the influence and used its amass fleet to destroy the few merchant ships that Portugal used to attack them with.

Big issue here is weapons development. Japan (or Portugal?) destroys major mercantile trade route but somehow salvages enough advanced weaponry to go against most western powers even as they occupy the entire Pacific and amass world's largest infantry? Stable element is missing.

Doable Cowboy Bebop style but even romanticized Sengoku period heroes were more warring than that to be considered stable military force much less stable trading partners.

P.S. I too would prefer gundams but for the sake of keeping the playing field even it would be overkill :D

Know you dropped this idea already but for sake of :D, gundam does not need to be made. Just events leading to gundam.

If you've played Front Mission 1 and 3 (only two with Eng versions besides platformer), you easily see shades of this.

Wanzers were multi-purpose in it can be construction unit, police force, air to land parachuter armor and stealth operations HQ. Compared to one purpose only magic armor this better reason why Japan found ways to circumvent Western powers and beat them not only in combat but war development while maintaining economic progress. Idea still flaky but like space race, it can switch tech race from nuclear storage to space travel and redefine political arena despite still enabling such combat concepts as urban-specialized guns, advanced guiding missiles and more lethal air to human targetting systems.

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