A Canon Check System? Can It Be?

[MysteriousArtistX]

As I was planning some elements in my game this came to mind: Would it be possible to create a way for the player to choose a canon to be marked as a multi-game persist?

Though I am quite a bit a ways from working on it, I know my current Sim/VN project is going to have a sequel. I also know because of the nature of my game that the people who play the 1st game will be less than likely to actually play the sequel, however I want to provide a gift/Easter Egg for those who have played through the 1st game as well. Seems like a simple enough idea, but as it is a Sim/VN hybrid [literally] it contains a LARGE amount of ending variations with a high replay factor. Seeing as most people play VN's to achieve all the endings eventually, I figure determining a canon play-through while the user is actively playing would be basically impossible.

My current logic is that easiest way to deal with a multi-game persist would be to let the player, perhaps after finishing all paths or maybe as they are unlocking paths, in a special menu screen or maybe as a preference boxed option - pick their own canon path. But I worry executing it this way might take away from game immersion?

So I guess my main questions are:

A) Is there a viable way to execute a canon check system during active play?
-And if not-
B) Would the user pick canon check system be a more feasible method and not kill or take away from immersion experience?
-And finally if the above-
C) Specialized screen/menu vs a drop box preference, when it comes to making the choice.

I welcome all advice, suggestions, opinions, and theories openly! And also thanks in advance to all who reply, I know this is quite to conundrum!

[Victoria Jennings]

Dude, if there's a way to do this, it'd be really useful for the collective series. Or just carrying your save data over in general. U':

[RunicV]

I'm no expert on this, but I do know of a game that did what you're contemplating to do.

They marked the latest ending you finished as the canon ending. You could check it under the Endings page in the Extras section--a star would be at the side of the latest ending you completed. You could also choose which ending you wanted to be canon.

I don't think it's possible to have the player choose it in-game, if you want the player to be still immersed in the game. You could say something vague like "Is this the right choice for me to make...?" but they might think that it's to do with the first game and not choosing a canon ending or the like.

So to your questions: a) No, it isn't possible., b) Yes, it would be a better method. I have no idea. I tend to be able to swap between mood changes in the tone of the game easily., c) I have no idea. I'm a newbie at Ren'Py.

Hope I helped. If I'm not making sense, ignore this.

[Endorphin]

Hmmm... I'd probably make a button somewhere (new screen or preferences) that allows you to choose things from a list.
These things would be the endings that you have completed. Choosing one would rename the persistent variable that you could check to know which ending's canon.
I don't know if there's a way to use that data, but I think there was something like this - google might is able to help.
I'm also not sure about drop down menus - there was also a code for that, but I didn't quite get it. In 1plus3, I show one choice with arrows to navigate instead and vertical lists.

Sorry, can't really help you here. ^^"

But I'd also prefer it in the preferences - "in game" would throw me out.
(Or it wouldn't. Depends on the style.
[Something like "That reminds me of my time with... a.) girl 1 b.) guy 1 c.) girl 2" would be fine, but... well.])

- R.

PS. I might misunderstood something. I'm rather tired today, sorry.

[Faze]

I think that it's possible to do it, but the coding as I'm thinking would be pretty messy. What I had in mind was to make it so that you could import your save file from the first game, much like you can import the save files from a demo to a regular game. You would need to program the first game with the second game in mind and set a few "sequel flags." Then in the sequel, assuming it's compatible with the save file, you could just make it so that there's no viable way for the player to access the first game's coding even if you had to include parts of it to avoid issues with importing the save and that would be that.

Something like this:

[old game]

$ sequelwalterisalive = False

or something that would have no effect on the first game. Then on the second game you could maintain the entire first game code for compatibility issues(again not sure how exactly save file compatibility works) but change the start label for the second game script, in addition to making it so that once the player clicks on start he's prompted to load his old save to activate this(you could even make a special screen to differ it from normal save/load). I'm not sure if there would be issues with that, but theoretically I think the player would have a file with flags based on his playthrough set which could then get you the effect you are going for.

The issues with that would be...
--I'm not too sure about how importing saves from demos to full games work and the same issue would apply here. I know it's definitely something you can do because I've done it before, I'm just not entirely sure on what are the exact variables that would stop the save file from transfering
--As far as I know, the player would have to transfer the save file manually as opposed to being prompted by the game. I think there should be ways around that though.
--If it is necessary to have the entire source code from the first game on your second game for save file compatibility(again, I don't know if that's the case) that could be an issue for commercial releases since you would be basically giving a possible hacker two games for the price of one.

...Or yeah you could just have a selection prompting people to select their canon, which would be much easier, but on my opinion it would hurt the immersion a bit. And I'm pretty sure there are easier ways to do what I just said, especially if it isn't a commercial release since then you wouldn't have to worry about just releasing the sequel as "updates" and all that.

[DeeKay]

This should provide answers to the multigame persistent data part ^^
http://www.renpy.org/wiki/renpy/doc/ref ... ersistence

So basically, you're covered for this kind of stuff, it's as easy as getting the contents of your saved file containing all your relevant flags/variables in your previous game when launching the current one.

[Faze]

There's documentation for that? Well, now I just feel silly

[MysteriousArtistX]

I'm no expert on this, but I do know of a game that did what you're contemplating to do.

They marked the latest ending you finished as the canon ending. You could check it under the Endings page in the Extras section--a star would be at the side of the latest ending you completed. You could also choose which ending you wanted to be canon.

I don't think it's possible to have the player choose it in-game, if you want the player to be still immersed in the game. You could say something vague like "Is this the right choice for me to make...?" but they might think that it's to do with the first game and not choosing a canon ending or the like.

So to your questions: a) No, it isn't possible., b) Yes, it would be a better method. I have no idea. I tend to be able to swap between mood changes in the tone of the game easily., c) I have no idea. I'm a newbie at Ren'Py.

Hope I helped. If I'm not making sense, ignore this.

Looked into this, it's Castle Chase, was quite cute and silly. But as I feared a little that in your face choice makes it a tad awkward. Also it was made with RPG Maker

This should provide answers to the multigame persistent data part ^^
http://www.renpy.org/wiki/renpy/doc/ref ... ersistence

So basically, you're covered for this kind of stuff, it's as easy as getting the contents of your saved file containing all your relevant flags/variables in your previous game when launching the current one.

Well this much I did know. It's just detailing what information gets transferred and how to go about it that is my current vice.

So far it seems the consensus is that a specialized screen would be more plausible. So here is another question:
Do you think sneaking it as a let's say... unlockable bonus storybook recap or perhaps minigame might be a good way to fix the immersion killing aspect?

[DeeKay]

So far it seems the consensus is that a specialized screen would be more plausible. So here is another question:
Do you think sneaking it as a let's say... unlockable bonus storybook recap or perhaps minigame might be a good way to fix the immersion killing aspect?

For sure, that sounds neat !

Why not save the main decisions you got in the first game then when launching the second game, check if there's any of that data there with another dedicated saved variable ?

If there is data, then you would access the storybook/recap/minigame as a prologue. The saved variables would be used in setting the predefined variables in the second game, replaying a summary of the first game but only allowing you to choose from what you've unlocked using these saved variables as a basis.

Otherwise you would skip it and have the predefined variables for the second game with a default setting instead.

[Miyuki]

I can't really say anything about connecting the sequel to the first game, but with my experience with otome games (Even though otome is like, a bad word or something on this forum) the "canon" ending is usually the one that's the most detailed.

Like if it's a mystery then it'd be where the most things are revealed or has the most satisfying ending. Sometimes if it's like a true ending it's obvious which one is canon because you had to get all of the other ones first, but if you're not coding it that way, the more detailed path thing usually works. There can also be smaller cues

I could use an example with the first of the Alice games by Quinrose, but I'm wary about spoiling it for people.

[RunicV]

I suppose you could give the person a code at the end of the game or something? Then at the beginning of the sequel, they could just type in the code, and then something would happen?

[CaseyLoufek]

Old school RPGs often had a transfer characters option. This didn't typically affect much since any variance in the previous plot rarely mattered in the sequel.

Still the idea is that you let the user continue a previous game, a lot like RunicV said. After the user complete the 1st game, just before credits roll, ask them if they wish to save this ending for future games. Have it write a data file and you use that. The second game just looks at whatever data the first game has and uses it. If they want to play from a different ending they complete the game again (possibly from a near end game save) and write the data again, when they start a new game of game2 they will be able to continue from that ending.

If there is no save to import just to default to the most common settings. Playing through from a different start point should be a reward for playing the 1st game or beating the 2nd on default canon. The recap thing could also work but would be more work.

[AERenoir]

I seem to remember one of the Cookbook scripts does this. It's probably the one DeeKay linked...

[SundownKid]

So far it seems the consensus is that a specialized screen would be more plausible. So here is another question:
Do you think sneaking it as a let's say... unlockable bonus storybook recap or perhaps minigame might be a good way to fix the immersion killing aspect?

For sure, that sounds neat !

Why not save the main decisions you got in the first game then when launching the second game, check if there's any of that data there with another dedicated saved variable ?

If there is data, then you would access the storybook/recap/minigame as a prologue. The saved variables would be used in setting the predefined variables in the second game, replaying a summary of the first game but only allowing you to choose from what you've unlocked using these saved variables as a basis.

Otherwise you would skip it and have the predefined variables for the second game with a default setting instead.

You could also ask the player to choose what happened in the last game if no save data was detected. That's what Mass Effect did when the player had no save data from the previous game - it basically just gave a series of questions. Of course, not everything was included, just the major plot points.

[LVUER]

You can use "persistent data". It's different from transferring save files. Persistent saves data to your computer and then you can have another game that use that very same persistent data (like your character data from previous game).