Achievements: Do they break the immersion in a game?

[RunicV]

Me and my friend are working on a game that's in its planning stages. We were wondering what features we could have inside the game, and having achievements was what came to mind.

However, after browsing on this forum for a while, most people stated that this and that broke their immersion into a game. I have had no complaints about this before, so I was quite surprised about it. (Well, I guess if you put an random note in the tragic, heartbreaking part of the game it would definitely disturb people...)

The achievements we were planning to have in our game is similiar to the XBOX's achievements. A sound and a bubble pops up, notifying you that you have achieved something.

My question: Would having that sort of achievement in a game break your immersion into a game? And if it doesn't: In what scenarios would it do so? (Eg. You're fine with it popping up during a battle, but get annoyed during a touching cutscene.)

I'll stop here now.

[Endorphin]

I love them. D:
They make me happy when I get them.
But while they are cool in battle, I would put them after a cutscene.
(Like, in the transition between the scenes--just a small pop-up on a black background or something.)
But I guess it depends how your pop-ups look like.

If it would be on some kind of notepad ("I never did"-stuff crossed out) it would be cute after a cutscene (or can even be a cutscene itself), but a pop-up that states "maximised lovepoints" would punch me in the face and remind me that I'm courting some fictional character which only loves me because of a variable. /sob

So it really depends. =o
Like everything.

- R.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

I like achievements, but only if they are done well. I HATE achievements that are a checklist. I.e. "Achievement - You Reached Chapter 2!"

The best achievements are ones that suggest other ways of playing the game, or encourage different strategies and playstyles. Or you know - are ACTUAL achievements.

[J. Datie]

Achievement notifications should be optional. Especially if it's a story heavy game. 'Cause notifications can seriously not read the atmosphere of situations. I shouldn't be given little pictures of trophies and a little happy sound marking off that one of the characters just died.

And, like LWR mentioned, I shouldn't be given little trophies for installing the game, or reaching the main menu.

[Carassaurat]

I think the "Chapter 2" kinds of achievements are an easy way for developers to track how people play their game, more than they are actual achievements; how many reach what part of the game? That's useful in its own way.

[papillon]

It's useful data, but annoying the players is bad for your game.

But like many things there are going to be a variety of viewpoints. I've heard people who really hate achievements because they feel like they're being "pressured" into doing things they wouldn't otherwise do, just to get an achievement.

For me as a developer I find them to be a useful way to signal to a player that content exists which they haven't found yet. However, I can't possibly put achievements on everything, as I'm a bit too silly about just how many options I build into games!

[Endorphin]

For me as a developer I find them to be a useful way to signal to a player that content exists which they haven't found yet.

This is an important point.
You read through the achievements list and think "Gosh, that's possible?!"--this gives you a clue what to do when you get lost in the game.
Of course you don't necessary need to make an achievement for every story element, as it's alright if it's just a "road sign"--you get this achievement and notice this way that there's a lot more content like this.

Hmm... Maybe making them optional would be nice.
This way, you can always look them up in the main menu but you don't get a pop-up if you don't want to. This also makes it easier to ignore them if you feel pressured.

- R.

[PyTom]

For me as a developer I find them to be a useful way to signal to a player that content exists which they haven't found yet. However, I can't possibly put achievements on everything, as I'm a bit too silly about just how many options I build into games!

IIRC, the way you handled "achievements" in Long Live the Queen was ideal. They are only shown in out-of-game environments, like the various menus, so they don't really break immersion by popping up immediately.

[Tsundere Lightning]

Some games just flat-out don't need achievements. Games like Katawa Shoujo come to mind - the storyline itself and the unlockables in the Gallery are your reward for playing; Acheivements would be redundant.

As a general rule of thumb of mine and Casey's, we're not including any Acheivement that you can receive automatically - so no "You beat this mandatory boss." We will include variations, though: "You beat this mandatory boss in a straight fight," "You ambushed this mandatory boss before it could fire back," and so on.

[junna]

no. I love achievements (since I play too much HOGs). but they need to be unobtrusive and fun to achieve like "you solved this puzzle in 10 minutes" sort of avhievements...I didn't make much sense..

[Auro-Cyanide]

I like achievements because I like collecting things :3 In a way CGs are an achievement as well since they act in much the same way as a reward for doing certain things. Achievements are good to act as markers for where you are in the story, to signify missed or alternative content, to act as a challenge, to encourage replay, lots of things. And if they are done well, they can be a great addition to the game.

Generally from the X-box games I've played, the achievements don't pop up in the middle of an important scene, but usually afterwards, either during fadeout or when play resumes, so I've never really seen them as distracting from those moments.

Extra Credits also has an episode on achievements in games http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/achievements

[Funnyguts]

I've argued this somewhere before, but I forget if it was on this forum. To me, the best achivements should affect your game beyond just being little awards you get for doing something or other. A quick example: Say in an RPG you manage to kill five dragons. The game can just say 'Oh here's the Dragonslayer achivement and 50 gamerpoints, go do more things and increase your score so you can feel better about wasting your life on videogames', or it can reflect the fact that killing five dragons should be a tremendous feat within the game, and an adventurer who manages to kill that many dragons must have learned something from the experience. So along with the achievement itself you now have a 20% damage bonus against dragons, and can pass your knowledge to your followers who will also get a damage bonus and will also be a bit less afraid of fighting dragons in the first place now that they've met someone who shown that they can be defeated.

[angryjedi]

I go back and forth on my feelings regarding Achievements. In some cases -- mostly more abstract, gameplay-focused titles (Crackdown and Geometry Wars on Xbox spring to mind) -- they work well, but in narrative-heavy games, I think they are often much too obtrusive, and in poorly-handled cases can constitute spoilers. A lot of players also see a list of achievements and then concentrate more on attaining all of them than paying attention to the plot, if applicable. I know because I have done this.

In the case of a VN, if you include an "extras" menu with a CG/music/video etc gallery, then I think that's ample reward for the player, personally.

[Taosym]

[DeeKay]

Haha, thanks Taosym ! I had a blast when I saw this !

So achievements huh ? If they give you hints as to what is possible in the game, it kinda defeats the purpose in a way. For instance, easter eggs in games are called that way because they're hidden.
Why not take the approach of having them but not showing them until you get them ? I mean, in older games, there weren't any achievements at all but you still got the joy of doing everything you could in them.