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Everyone of you had that time when you had to portrait a certain situation but felt it was too overused? In fact, I think that cliché situations can be quite interesting and catching if they're spiced up a bit. Think about Romeo and Juliet and other star-crossed lovers. It personally makes me sick to read something that ends with the same way. They both died, or they never got together. Or the same story about an FBI agent who befriends the criminal. Speaking as a mere high-school sophomore who studies literature all day long, I've had more than enough of those kind of scenes.
Alternatively, creating something really mind blowing that would affect your way of thinking or would give you chills, that's a very rare threat nowadays. And certainly adds an unique touch to the story.
My point here is, Would cliché situations be more acceptable with a different setting/characters/ small changes in the storyline? I'm really curious what you think of this idea.
P.S: I'm sorry for my grammar mistakes, if there are any. English is my second language:).

Alternatively, creating something really mind blowing that would affect your way of thinking or would give you chills, that's a very rare threat nowadays.

I don't find that threatening at all. Why do you feel it's a threat to have something mind blowing?

Would cliché situations be more acceptable with a different setting/characters/ small changes in the storyline?

There's nothing wrong with using clichés. The important thing is to create a story that is unique enough to sit in the reader's mind and engaging enough to be read from start to finish. You achieve this by using the elements "characters", "setting" and "plot" in such a way to really captivate the reader.

I'd read Romeo and Juliet all over again if someone would do something interesting to its setting, characters and/or plot.

Why divide, why not mix?

I love using cliches, just to overrun the reader/player.
Because cliches rise expectations.
You can easily throw them off, scare them or confuse them by just stopping following the cliche in the middle.

I mean, let's take a horror game.
The setting: a old, dark house
The sounds: threatening
Your weapons: Nothing, just a flash light and your trusty legs for running
The enemy: Here is the nag: None.

A good example is the game "SCP-87-B" for this.
You run for about fricking TEN minutes through corridors and...nothing.
You are scared as hell, freak out for every small change and nothing.
You get fooled by the cliche that scary games have jump scares like "You turn around that edge and something appears".


Same thing for wonderful comedy/drama effects.
Just disturb a romance scene in the most unusual way.
Take the famous "Serious relationship-talk on the playground" and make it the place for a sudden serial killer.
Take a fluffy-cute mascot and make it go all nuts instead of helpful.
Make the heroine into a transforming Super-Something. Like a alien, cow or pig (Super Pig, flies through the sky!). Or just let others get nosebleeds because she is naked during her transformation.
Or just make two persons have a unrealistic long and boring talk, so that the player thinks something bad will happen (because uninteresting stuff is usualy interupted by something dramatic).

And tada, you're kind of original (since almost no one dares to use cliches and then break them, rather just not use them at all) and still using well-known cliches.

Destiny wrote:Same thing for wonderful comedy/drama effects.
Just disturb a romance scene in the most unusual way.
Take the famous "Serious relationship-talk on the playground" and make it the place for a sudden serial killer.
Take a fluffy-cute mascot and make it go all nuts instead of helpful.
Make the heroine into a transforming Super-Something. Like a alien, cow or pig (Super Pig, flies through the sky!). Or just let others get nosebleeds because she is naked during her transformation..

A lot of those are sudden whiplashes, which are usually bad writing. (The first one is excusable if it's at the beginning of the story and sets the mood for the story) There has to be buildup to something. You just can't go from 1 genre and then sudden;y jump to another without getting a few WTF's. It still has to make sense for us to go from romantic comedy to "Nightmare on Elm Street"

Everything is a cliche at this point. The key is to take the expected, chop it up into little pieces, and reassemble them into a bunch of well-crafted golems to do your bidding.

Also, taking cues from reality is something to keep in mind, especially if you're writing something slice-of-life. Do you and your friends sit on a couch and start playing word-association games for no reason? Then there's no reason not to have that show up in your game.

Hijiri wrote:

Destiny wrote:Same thing for wonderful comedy/drama effects.
Just disturb a romance scene in the most unusual way.
Take the famous "Serious relationship-talk on the playground" and make it the place for a sudden serial killer.
Take a fluffy-cute mascot and make it go all nuts instead of helpful.
Make the heroine into a transforming Super-Something. Like a alien, cow or pig (Super Pig, flies through the sky!). Or just let others get nosebleeds because she is naked during her transformation..

A lot of those are sudden whiplashes, which are usually bad writing. (The first one is excusable if it's at the beginning of the story and sets the mood for the story) There has to be buildup to something. You just can't go from 1 genre and then sudden;y jump to another without getting a few WTF's. It still has to make sense for us to go from romantic comedy to "Nightmare on Elm Street"

Sure, I didn't mean to overuse it or get too extreme (except one aims for a parody).
It's more like a little mind-fuck after a while when you realize that it isn't going the way you thought it would.
Be it that it shows from the beginning but you doubt it (like in that horror game I mentioned where one just keeps believing that something will happen for a long time) or that everything seems pretty normal until it suddenly turns totaly WTF.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to make a nice, beautiful game (maybe break the cliche sometimes by adding comedy).
But I like it the most, when it totally swaps, just like you said would be bad.
But of course only after a while, when the player already got used to the peaceful/funny/romantic setting, to make the effect of the swap stronger.
Just take a look at the game/anime "School Days".
The first episode of "Higurashi no Naku Koro ni" on comparison to the rest.
Just take all those cute, romantic, sweet little stories with their nice, little heros and heroins...
and wrap it up so extremly (but well composed and thought through) that it will leave a good irritation, if not shock moment.
(But then again, I'm a great fan of horror and splatter and totally and absolutly hate romantic comedy that is all fluffy or over-exagerated dramatic...)

It's the best kind of use a cliche.
A horror story ALWAYS starts and ends with horror. Same goes with all the other genres. That is the most used and almost never broken cliche.
So why not start all lovey-dovey and turn it for the worse.
Or:

Applegate wrote:

Alternatively, creating something really mind blowing that would affect your way of thinking or would give you chills, that's a very rare threat nowadays.

I don't find that threatening at all. Why do you feel it's a threat to have something mind blowing?

Would cliché situations be more acceptable with a different setting/characters/ small changes in the storyline?

There's nothing wrong with using clichés. The important thing is to create a story that is unique enough to sit in the reader's mind and engaging enough to be read from start to finish. You achieve this by using the elements "characters", "setting" and "plot" in such a way to really captivate the reader.

I'd read Romeo and Juliet all over again if someone would do something interesting to its setting, characters and/or plot.

He meant treat, not threat.

Zelda: Ocarina of Time is considered one of the best games ever, and many praise its story despite being filled with cliches. Same with other games/other media in general. It's more about what do you do with those cliches, if you decide to use them.

Personally, I'm not fond of extreme genre shifts unless they're done only once or twice, and in a tasteful way. Otherwise it just feels ridiculous, as if the author didn't have enough ideas and just threw in everything he/she could.

It's not the presence of cliches that really matters, it is how you utilize/change/play around with them that does.

If you use a cliche to a T and have it be the same old thing that everyone is used to, it could work or it could be annoying depending on the circumstances of the context. If you take the same cliche and twist it 180, it could work even better. If you play it to a T for comedic purposes or hide it well enough that it doesn't seem like one at first, that could be amusing or surprising.

It's not cliche to use cliches. Everyone does. Almost nothing is "fresh" or original 100% anymore. But it is fresh to give these old cliches a, not new but, UNIQUE spin. Being unique is more important than being original now, in my opinion, as being original is near impossible.

Embrace those cliche's and use them to your advantage.

Destiny wrote:Sure, I didn't mean to overuse it or get too extreme (except one aims for a parody).
It's more like a little mind-fuck after a while when you realize that it isn't going the way you thought it would.
Be it that it shows from the beginning but you doubt it (like in that horror game I mentioned where one just keeps believing that something will happen for a long time) or that everything seems pretty normal until it suddenly turns totaly WTF.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to make a nice, beautiful game (maybe break the cliche sometimes by adding comedy).
But I like it the most, when it totally swaps, just like you said would be bad.
But of course only after a while, when the player already got used to the peaceful/funny/romantic setting, to make the effect of the swap stronger.
Just take a look at the game/anime "School Days".
The first episode of "Higurashi no Naku Koro ni" on comparison to the rest.
Just take all those cute, romantic, sweet little stories with their nice, little heros and heroins...
and wrap it up so extremly (but well composed and thought through) that it will leave a good irritation, if not shock moment.
(But then again, I'm a great fan of horror and splatter and totally and absolutly hate romantic comedy that is all fluffy or over-exagerated dramatic...)

All of those examples build up to the whiplash. Higurashi starts by making us feel uncomfortable; it plants the seeds of doubt about the world. At some point you will be going "Something feels off." For School Days, the same thing happens, there's buildup to just what the girls will do. Again, if you can't go from Point A to Point B without using a portal gun, then you're probably doing something wrong.

Joss Whedon, Stan Lee, Shakespeare ~ all of these men have used the same characters and story Cliches from works older than time (Rome but what ever) All they did was Scratch out the names and Repaint the project.

What you need to keep in mind is that Nothing is new under the sun.

I don't find that threatening at all. Why do you feel it's a threat to have something mind blowing?

I meant treat. My apologies. My English is a bit rusty ^_^ .

So mixing epic and common is the key to a good story, at least. My confidence built up again

When I'm in writer's block, I tend to write the most pathetic things. In my view, at least .