My first VN. Tips and pointers?

[pickedlastjake]

Hello Ren'Py forums. I am a film school graduate and once-aspiring-screenwriter that has been working for a handful of years in indie movies. Having grown weary of all the unplesantries that come with working with uppity film folks and recently started a small career in the gaming industry, I decided it was time to make the transition from the silver screen to telling stories through games. I would love my first venture (and hopefully many more after it) to be in the world of visual novels. Having always held a happy little place in my heart (as it is a very mushy, lovey-dovey heart), I greatly admire the people who put the time and energy into a well crafted VN. I have many of my own guidelines for what makes a VN good in my book, as in what I enjoy and what I don't. But I'm curious what others consider elements that make a great title. Is a dynamic novel more well received than just a static story? If so, what level of interactivity is considered normal? Would you want more? What parts of a visual novel grab you, and make you fall in love with not only the story, but the oh-so-important characters tossed into the middle of that story? Whatever insight you have for an eager n00by would be greatly appreciated!

[dramspringfeald]

(Just my opinion)

Well it depends entirely on the subject and the writer. I've played plenty of static novels that were awesome and I've played plenty of them which were not. The same can be said about Dynamic games.

It all depends. What kind of stories do YOU like playing? This is because if you don't like making one over the other we will feel it. The best you can hope for is to make something YOU enjoy. there is a good chance plenty of us will.

Now when it comes to the kinds of stories we prefer well it's a pain but we have these kinds of discussions all over the forum all the time. most of us like cute thing other like deeper stories. Some of us prefer "Adult" stuff while other don't. So again What do YOU like will be the most important guide we have.

If you want a love story between some cripple girls and a tank go for it (actually...)
If you want a historic note and a your look on the world through the wide eyes of a young protagonist living with the horrors of what tomorrow will bring most of us are all for it.
If you want a rape smut with death... yeah best leave that out. Maybe like 5 people on here are for it the rest would not like to see it... if you do just label it properly please. Beyond that It's all on you friend.

When it comes to characters I always ask what does the character mean to you/me(the writer)? Why does the character exist and why should WE (the audience) care about them?

Good luck and it's all up to you.

[meh]

It's awesome to see you branching out to games. Welcome to the forums!

I agree with everything dramspringfeald has said. I wouldn't worry about static stories at all as some of the best VNs I've played through have been static. I personally don't really like it when a story could have been told statically but the writer/creator puts in choices that feel like they don't affect the outcome at all or choices that seem more like an afterthought than a legitimate decision for the player to make. So if you have a story you want to tell, tell it and don't worry about the player so much. If it's a good story people will like it regardless of the level of interactivity!

One of the things I hate about myself is that I'm really big on the art style of a VN and often times I'll pass over a VN with a great story just because the art style rubs me in the wrong way. But that's just a personal preference and I get the feeling that most players don't care too much for the art style so long as the story is good.

Also as a piece of advice, I'd say it's great to have an amazing idea, but don't bite off more than you can chew! It's always helped me to temper my optimism by reminding myself that VNs are so much more than just a story. In that sense, I think writing a VN is definitely different than directing or writing for a film or writing a novel. I'm not saying this to discourage you or anything, but just have a realistic outlook for your VNs because I've seen a lot of great VN ideas that just never manage to make it off the drawing board because they were overly ambitious.

I guess what I really wanted to say--and not to get all mushy on you--is just have fun and do whatever you want. I think at the end of the day, the reason we make VNs is because we have a story that we want to show people. Don't worry so much about what the player wants or what s/he will find fun. Just tell your story and naturally there will be people who love it and people who aren't so enchanted by it. Good luck!

[Zylinder]

The more general ones:

- Start off with a small game, none of this Greatest Game Ever business
- Make demos before recruiting if you're bagging free members

But I'm curious what others consider elements that make a great title. Is a dynamic novel more well received than just a static story? If so, what level of interactivity is considered normal? Would you want more? What parts of a visual novel grab you, and make you fall in love with not only the story, but the oh-so-important characters tossed into the middle of that story? Whatever insight you have for an eager n00by would be greatly appreciated!

I like dynamic novels more than static novels, since by my reckoning, I can just read a book if I want a static novel and save myself the grief of jarring art/music. I am willing to make an exception if your game comes highly recommended/is polished/interesting though.

Level of interactivity should be enough to make me feel like I make a difference and not so many that they're pretty much pointless. (à la 'tea or coffee') The number of choices doesn't matter as much as consequences - if you give me a choice, that choice must actually change something.

Visual novels grab me when they're real. I like to see things that I might see in real life: harsh truths, selfish people, greed, cruelty. Not to say I want only negative things in the stories I read, but I want to see something gritty and real. Not 'I kick puppies because my classmates used to pick on me' and glossing over everything with shinies. Something poignant, along the lines of something you might see in a Julian Barnes book? Of course, that's probably a little demanding of me.

Alternatively, humor. I'll play anything, forgive anything, if you're funny.

[gekiganwing]

Is a dynamic novel more well received than just a static story? If so, what level of interactivity is considered normal? Would you want more?

Most stories told through prose, comics, theater, and film are static. There are some exceptions (gamebooks and experimental works), but it's otherwise rare to see ones in which the audience can determine what will happen. The opposite is true for many examples of video games and roleplaying games.

I expect a small amount of interaction in visual novels. In other words, choices every now and then, which lead to different events and endings. While I might not be as enthusiastic about kinetic novels (no choices), I definitely think they can be a good way to present a story, as well as enjoyable to read. I like VNs that include more gameplay, usually in the form of statistics and schedule management. Though I admit that if the gameplay is frustrating or needlessly repetitive, then my enthusiasm will decrease.

What parts of a visual novel grab you, and make you fall in love with not only the story, but the oh-so-important characters tossed into the middle of that story?

I need to care about the characters and their conflicts. If I don't care what happens to the people, then I will probably set the VN aside.

Aesthetics aren't the #1 priority, but they matter. I know that everyone has a style or two that they like... you can't please all the people all the time. (I tend to like ridiculously cute art.) So once you have a quality story, give it appropriate visuals.

Also, it helps if the setting is interesting or detailed.

[Kato]

I haven't had much experience in VN's but having made a plethora or RPGs in the past I quickly (Not quick enough, mind) realised that the games that had the best reception were the ones that I made for me, rather than the ones I made because I thought others might like them. If you're not invested in the story yourself, you can't expect anyone else to be, static, dynamic or otherwise.

If you want a love story between some cripple girls and a tank go for it (actually...)

I... Someone must write this...

[Greeny]

Whether you pick the bazooka, the gatling gun or the more subtle Beretta 418, the most important thing is that you stick to your guns.

[Blue Lemma]

For your first one keep it small keep it small keep it small keep it small keep it small!

[TrickWithAKnife]

I'm curious what others consider elements that make a great title. Is a dynamic novel more well received than just a static story? If so, what level of interactivity is considered normal? Would you want more?

People who make VNs are more likely to accept not static elements than the average gamer, so it depends who you want to appeal to.

Also, if you use the label "VN" in your own project, there are certain expectations people will probably have, some positive, some negative.

I would recommend making the game you would like to play, because chances are other people will like similar things.

[pickedlastjake]

Wow, thanks for all the helpful and prompt insight folks. I can see this is the right forum to be on. The gist of what I'm getting is what I more-or-less had in mind. It is always nice to get it confirmed by people already doing what I aim to do. Coming from film has helped me realize that your first project (or even the next six projects after that) are probably not gonna win any awards or fame, and the key is to just be true to yourself and put your heart into what you write. The story I'm working on adapting for a visual novel right now is short and sweet, and very close to my heart. I've also lined up a very talented up-and-coming artist who is interested in starting out in VNs as well, and a talented musician who has aided me with game music in the past. Thank you for the support, and I look forward to getting to know all you fine guys and gals over the coming months.

[Ryue]

Wow, thanks for all the helpful and prompt insight folks. I can see this is the right forum to be on. The gist of what I'm getting is what I more-or-less had in mind. It is always nice to get it confirmed by people already doing what I aim to do. Coming from film has helped me realize that your first project (or even the next six projects after that) are probably not gonna win any awards or fame, and the key is to just be true to yourself and put your heart into what you write. The story I'm working on adapting for a visual novel right now is short and sweet, and very close to my heart. I've also lined up a very talented up-and-coming artist who is interested in starting out in VNs as well, and a talented musician who has aided me with game music in the past. Thank you for the support, and I look forward to getting to know all you fine guys and gals over the coming months.

I'm on my first game as well and I see it as a test so taht I get used to what is needed for games and also to get to know the people and most importantly get
experience (I'm from web customer application developing branch and there I'm almost always working alone on projects so it is quite a difference to working
with people here on a project for me).

first project (or even the next six projects after that) win any awards or fame, and the key is to just be true to yourself and put your heart into what you write.

I think you have it correct there as they are mostly to get experience and also to get ppl to know you and what type of work you can do.

Also don't forget to post your project in the ideas section in the work in progress and later on in the work in progress section (or ask a moderator to move it as soon as it's completely underway). That should help if you want a bit of feedback, ... and also in case you need more ppl (you can do a recruit post and then also link to that work in progress post for more details).

[pickedlastjake]

Thanks for the input Wolf. Once I have a more solid design in place I will most definitely post in the WIP section. And I'm not sure I'll need any recruitment for this first journey, but perhaps down the line, and once I've shown my own abilities I'll keep the recruiting page in mind for both my own projects and however I can possibly lend a hand on others later down the line. Good luck on your first game as well.

[Amorphous]

For your first one keep it small keep it small keep it small keep it small keep it small!

This. Entirely. The first game doesn't need to be a masterpiece, and it'll be a lot more rewarding if it is finished - which (usually) won't happen if you try to make a massive epic on your first tackle. I haven't made any VNs yet, but I have made Flash not-VN games, and I made the mistake of trying to do something too big too fast - it's not exactly a pleasant journey, and it took me two years of trial and error to finally publish the mess that I made.

I see that you are working on a short one, though, and that the story is close to you, so that's good.

As for visual novels, I really love how the music and visuals can subtly influence mood and atmosphere of whatever's being presented, so even the most static of visual novels has some interaction or depth in them. But that will depend on presentation; art and music can break a VN as much as it can make one. Having consistent art / sounds that give off a specific mood, and the abilit to read as fast or as slow as I want, is really what draws me towards VNs as opposed to say, books or movies (in which you can only choose one or the other).

[pickedlastjake]

Alright, one more question before I come back with something to show for it. Browsing the forums I've noticed one of most people's biggest gripes is a VN that is just a bit too short. Now the story I want to tell for my first game is a rather short one. If you were to play through a quick VN that would take probably about 15-20 minutes to finish, what sorts of things would make you enjoy such a short story? (Granted, I'm still making this game regardless, just wonder what kinds of things to keep in mind that make it just as enjoyable for the player as it is for me, the creator.)

[TrickWithAKnife]

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about length, especially if it isn't commercial.
As long as people know what to expect in the way of length, and if the price is adjusted accordingly if it's commercial, then it should be fine.

People who post semi regularly are easier to remember, and having seen your short completed project(s) would make us more likely to pay attention to any longer ones.