Getting sick of Japanese names

[TrickWithAKnife]

Unfortunately the usage of Japanese elements and schools is so prevalent that it's created a negative stigma for those outside this community. So yes, it does affect us. Especially people who want to go commercial.

Of course you can't make everyone happy all the time, but it's hard to get the genre taken seriously when 50% of VNs have one or both of those extremely generic elements.

Something like SciFi or Fantasy isn't mentioned because although they are popular, that is just a vague genre, and there is usually a decent amount of variety there.
Setting a game in a highschool is very specific. When was the last time you played a console game set in a school? Probably not recently or not often, because the production companies outside of Japan know it's not popular.

Likewise, you probably haven't played a great deal of console games made in Western countries that have Japanese characters, or are set in Japan. Why? Because it doesn't make any sense.

I mentioned that 50% of VNs here are either set in schools, contain Japanese elements, or both. I anyone doubts this, I strongly suggest you look closer at the WiP topics.

Every time I see a WiP that starts with something like "Join Kenji Matsumune as he stalks gullible girls in his highschool", I die a little inside.

[zankizuna]

That's cool. At least the names on my VN aren't all Japanese.
I have English Names... Breeze, Flair, Geo, Aera, Marina, Sofi and Adam lol
I still do have some japanese ones like Zan Kizuna though and Kimiko and Karasu... Oh well..

[Deji]

I personally don't like it when I see somebody making a japanese highschool game or a similar thing, when they're not japanese and they haven't lived in japan or anything that "justifies" it.
I just rolls my eyes and look for something else that makes it interesting, and if I don't find anything that catches my eye, I close the thread and move on, and I look for something that *I* may particularly like.

Like Auro said, personal preference =/= fact or universal truth other people have to abide by. If you don't like, or if you're tired of japanese characters written by non japanese people, specially when set in highschool, GREAT! But that doesn't mean it's a bad thing by itself. It's overused, it's cliche, but if the creators want to do it, let them be! AFAIK, most people here are doing games for the fun of it anyway

Let people make the stories they want (And name their characters whatever they want), and if you don't like them, just roll your eyes, grumble and move on

(And YES, I've made and I'm currently making art for that kind of game myself! I don't need to love the concept to be able to draw it, haha x'D )

[Auro-Cyanide]

Unfortunately the usage of Japanese elements and schools is so prevalent that it's created a negative stigma for those outside this community. So yes, it does affect us. Especially people who want to go commercial.

A negative stigma. In a niche of a niche in a medium that still isn't respected as legitimate and suffer from a whole host of stigmas. When has that stopped anyone?

Plus, the heaviest stigma associated with VNs is porn and the H section here is nearly dead, so I would like to see someone explain that.

Also, the WiP section shouldn't be our measuring stick, the completed section should be. How many of them percentage wise are atypical Japanese cliche? I bet it's a lot lower than you think.

[papillon]

So yes, it does affect us. Especially people who want to go commercial.

... nope, gotta say, of all the things I worry about while making my living with these games, random amateurs writing slice-of-life games in bad Japanese settings is pretty low on the list.

[ShippoK]

On a kind of related note...

Anyone notice the person who started this thread has a VN called May-Chan?
I'm quite confused now...
I know it's an English name, it's just the '-Chan' part that gets me.

[teacup]

Also, the WiP section shouldn't be our measuring stick, the completed section should be. How many of them percentage wise are atypical Japanese cliche? I bet it's a lot lower than you think.

I agree with Auro. We shouldn't measure the number of these games by the WIP forum - most of those games will never get finished, and many of them are abandoned already. So I went through the Completed Games first page and counted every game that uses Japanese themes or is set in a high school (or both).
There were 21 games.
There are 60 games in total on the first page.
Also, two of those games that used Japanese names were created by a Japanese person who lives in Japan.
So... that's less than 50%. And you can't really argue with facts. If you want to go through the entire completed games forum and do the same calculations, be my guest, but I'm pretty certain the result will still be far less than half.

[TrickWithAKnife]

Less than 50% is still an awful lot.

It's common knowledge that having Japanese elements in a game that wasn't made by a Japanese person is unpopular. I've never seen anyone post in the topics for those games to slag them off for only that reason.
This topic is a chance for us to vent without calling out anyone in particular.

Is it unfair to let people know that certain elements are disliked? Should we let them jump on the bandwagon, even though it's heading off a cliff, or should we give them a friendly "you can go that way if you want, but it might not be as smooth as you probably think."

Even people who have VNs with Japanese elements are also complaining about them. That says a lot. I'm guilty of it myself, although I actually live in Japan.

It's really hard to imagine a game is going to be relatively original when there are such generic elements in the description.

[Obscura]

Plus, the heaviest stigma associated with VNs is porn and the H section here is nearly dead, so I would like to see someone explain that.

Hey, now...

I'm doing all I can to further stigmatize the genre. I can only do so much.

If you freaks making PG games could pitch in once in a while, I'd really appreciate it.

[teacup]

Less than 50% is still an awful lot.

35% is not "an awful lot". It is hardly a majority. You still have 65% of other games to enjoy.
I had a feeling you would say that it's still a lot, though, even if you were proven wrong. I'm sorry, but do you realize how you sound right now? This conversation is basically:
"Half of the games on this forum are Japanese or set in a high school! I'm tired of these generic games!"
"Actually, I counted. A lot less than half of the games are Japanese or set in a high school..."
"Well... that's still a lot! No matter what you say, generic games are bad and are ruining visual novels!"
^disclaimer: not an actual conversation, this is just how I see it

Is it unfair to let people know that certain elements are disliked? Should we let them jump on the bandwagon, even though it's heading off a cliff, or should we give them a friendly "you can go that way if you want, but it might not be as smooth as you probably think."

No, it's not unfair to tell people that their game will not be successful because it is generic. Nor is it unfair to ignore them and let them do what they want.
The fact is, people in this thread are hardly doing either of those things.
They are basically telling people to stop making things that they don't like. And that isn't right.

[ShippoK]

If you freaks making PG games could pitch in once in a while, I'd really appreciate it.

How many people do you think are above the age of 18+ here?
(Not to many probably)

But I totally agree, I wish more people chipped into the adult forum once in a while.

[TrickWithAKnife]

If you don't like people who don't fawn over faux-Japanese VNs, this probably isn't the right topic to be visiting.

As I said, here is where we are able to voice our opinions, and no-one is telling anyone else not to make their VN, extremely generic elements or not.

We are just saying we are tired to death of those elements. If creators choose to ignore that fact, so be it. We are entitled to like or dislike whatever we like, and if we want to discuss that in a standalone topic, that is our right.

It would be exactly the same as if a large percentage of VNs were set in the US Disneyland. Everyone likes it. America is a popular place.
What's the difference?

[ririruetoo]

I think everyone should watch this...because this is........something.....

Nyan~Neko Sugar Girls:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pupTowgpVVo

[teacup]

If you don't like people who don't fawn over faux-Japanese VNs, this probably isn't the right topic to be visiting.

I don't expect anyone to fawn over faux-Japanese VNs simply because they are faux-Japanese.
I don't even fawn over faux-Japanese VNs because of that reason. I fawn over games that are well-made, have nice art, have interesting premises, or are well written... no matter what setting they have.
Also, I would never like or dislike someone based on their VN preferences. What people say in this thread has no effect on my opinion of them as a person.

As I said, here is where we are able to voice our opinions, and no-one is telling anyone else not to make their VN, extremely generic elements or not.

You're allowed to voice your opinion, you're right. But so am I.
I could post a quote from this thread where someone literally tells others to stop making games outside of their culture, but I won't. I'm sure you'll just refute that proof as well.

We are just saying we are tired to death of those elements. If creators choose to ignore that fact, so be it. We are entitled to like or dislike whatever we like, and if we want to discuss that in a standalone topic, that is our right.

And I'm tired to death of people complaining about the same thing over and over, while doing next to nothing to alleviate the problem.
Man, I've been on this forum for several years now. I could easily dig up four threads that contain people whining over this same topic. And guess what? People are still making generic games. So what does that tell you? Whining does nothing.
I am entitled to like or dislike whatever argument I like, and if I want to challenge that argument, that is my right.

[ririruetoo]

You know, when I see a thread like this, I get the feeling that people are complaining about the taste of the free ice cream.

It's like - people get together and make the games that interest them. And you can play it or not, and you can make your own game or not. But fundamentally, I don't think a thread like this is going to change a creator's mind. We've been having this sort of conversation every couple of months for the last decade or so - I'm not sure it's worth rehashing.

I understand PyTom, really I do. I don't expect this thread to change any persons mind on anything (thats the last thing in the whole world I want!), I just made it to hear people's opinions on the matter because I think its a rather interesting discussion.

You have to do this research no matter where your game is set and who your characters are. There are absolutely no exceptions regardless of the circumstances (though I must admit, if you want to dabble in another country or culture from your own it requires far more in the long run and you had better be prepared to do that or else... well, you have seen some of the responses here and they have a point).

As I said, it does get old after a while to see games with Japanese names or settings. But that is only because there is a large amount of them. That doesn't mean they are going to be bad because of it. And that doesn't mean that games with other names are automatically going to be better. Any game, regardless of the circumstances regarding the setting and names of the characters, can be amazingly good or horrendously horrible depending on who makes it, how much research went into it, and what they do in the story. Do I want more games with other names and settings? YES YES YES.. Am I going to hate you if you make one in Japan or with Japanese names anyway just because that is what you decided would work for you? No, as long as you do what you should I really don't care.

Just... Research, do it. Doesn't matter who you are, where you are from, what you are writing about (even high fantasy demands research), that prevents many issues people have with this sort of thing.

I agree with this statement, research is the key to any story. Generic games aren't exactly a bad thing, I'm quite guilty of the fact of writing quite a few throughout my life and writing in any form is a great thing, but depending on the story especially if it is a different country, you need to do at least a little research into the customs/history/etiquette of that country.....Anyways! Enough of me getting off topic from my original topic!!