Everyone Kickstart Yo!

A place to discuss things that aren't specific to any one creator or game.
Forum rules
Ren'Py specific questions should be posted in the Ren'Py Questions and Annoucements forum, not here.
Message
Author
User avatar
papillon
Arbiter of the Internets
Posts: 4107
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:37 am
Completed: lots; see website!
Projects: something mysterious involving yuri, usually
Organization: Hanako Games
Tumblr: hanakogames
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#76 Post by papillon »

Most people have to invest at least a little bit to get their concept art and videos and the like ready for pitch, don't they?

Admittedly I have seen cases that didn't - and there have been some scandals with stolen art - but a pure-text pitch isn't generally considered a great plan afaik.

Blue Lemma
Forum Founder
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2003 2:32 pm
Completed: ToL, Shoujo Attack!, Lemma Ten
Projects: [RETIRED FROM FORUM ADMINISTRATION - CONTACT PYTOM WITH ISSUES]
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#77 Post by Blue Lemma »

Papillon is right: You pretty much need a good video to have a good chance of funding success. I think I read on Kickstarter that pitches with videos are about twice as likely to be funded as those without.
“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.”
- Napoleon Bonaparte


I've retired from forum administration. I do not add people to the "adult" group, deactivate accounts, nor any other administrative task. Please direct admin/mod issues to PyTom or the other mods : )

User avatar
vividXP
Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:54 am
Projects: "Almost There" (NanoReno '14)
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#78 Post by vividXP »

And I'm not gonna lie: When you've poured yourself into something - your time, your hard-earned money, your development experience, into a product you took the risk on yourself (freeware, commercial, whatever) and receive criticism (some fair, some unfair)... and then see people throwing large sums of money and praise at unfinished cliched projects not backed by experience, it hurts.

It's discouraging. If that makes me a hater, I guess I'm a hater. I think it makes me human.
I get it. I do. But I feel like this is a 'the grass seems greener on the other side' situation. Are those unfinished, cliched projects by inexperienced devs sitting pretty atop piles of cash? Maybe and maybe not. More money and hype can equal way more problems. And being inexperienced may mean getting the crash course to hell.

But in the end I guess I'm just wondering what happens after the hurt? I guess this thread is your way of saying if you can't beat them, why not join them, it's obviously not that hard. That's definitely one path to go down.
vividxp.tumblr.com
Wọn ṣe bí òtòṣì ò gbọn bí ọlọrò; wón ní ì bá gbón ì bá lówó lọwọ / People think the poor person lacks the wisdom the wealthy person has; they say if one had wisdom, one would be rich

Blue Lemma
Forum Founder
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2003 2:32 pm
Completed: ToL, Shoujo Attack!, Lemma Ten
Projects: [RETIRED FROM FORUM ADMINISTRATION - CONTACT PYTOM WITH ISSUES]
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#79 Post by Blue Lemma »

If more people joined them, some of the issues would work themselves out.

There are people here who I think are definitely Kickstart-worthy, and I'd like to see them give it a shot :)

There are also people I don't think are Kickstart-worthy, but I'd like to see them give it a shot, too :P It all helps.
“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.”
- Napoleon Bonaparte


I've retired from forum administration. I do not add people to the "adult" group, deactivate accounts, nor any other administrative task. Please direct admin/mod issues to PyTom or the other mods : )

Lishy
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#80 Post by Lishy »

I'm a little worried. If I ask for $10,000 I'm afraid I wont make it! D:

I have nowhere near the fanbse of Taosym at the moment... >_<
-

Blue Lemma
Forum Founder
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2003 2:32 pm
Completed: ToL, Shoujo Attack!, Lemma Ten
Projects: [RETIRED FROM FORUM ADMINISTRATION - CONTACT PYTOM WITH ISSUES]
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#81 Post by Blue Lemma »

Ask for $5000 and set a bunch of stretch goals :D Besides, if you don't make it, you can always try again.

Just make sure you use your best art and sketches and cutestuff to sell it to the kickers. Make sure you line up some cool artists, musicians, or whoever you can promote.

And if you get funded, make sure you finish ;)
“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.”
- Napoleon Bonaparte


I've retired from forum administration. I do not add people to the "adult" group, deactivate accounts, nor any other administrative task. Please direct admin/mod issues to PyTom or the other mods : )

User avatar
Taosym
Veteran
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:27 am
Projects: http://lupiesoft.com/
Organization: Lupiesoft
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#82 Post by Taosym »

Blue Lemma wrote: And I'm not gonna lie: When you've poured yourself into something - your time, your hard-earned money, your development experience, into a product you took the risk on yourself (freeware, commercial, whatever) and receive criticism (some fair, some unfair)... and then see people throwing large sums of money and praise at unfinished cliched projects not backed by experience, it hurts.
I might have to side with a few people on this one. Although you did write the original post in sarcasm, I think there was part of it, maybe a big part of it, that you really felt. You told others not to assume what you were thinking, to pretend they are psychic without knowing you. However some of us who are working on games are experienced. Yes this might be our first VN, but we are not inexperienced. A lot of us are from other fields, and are only recently branching into games, and indie development. I know I've been doing commissions professionally for years prior to working on my game.

I mainly turned to Kickstarter because of the demand others expressed in me. I didn't just wake up one day and think "Man, I should really con people out of 17k dollars", most of my backers already knew me before the Kickstarter, were already fans, have stuff I've worked on before, or have commissioned me before. I didn't look at it as easy money, and I certainly didn't feel it was easy money. Especially since I would wake up, draw for my work, and then any free time was spent on Dizzy Hearts, then I'd go to sleep, for a long time, this was my life. In the four months leading up to releasing the demo, I was transitioning into game development as a nearly full time job, and working 16 hours a day, nearly 7 days a week. I think the day before the demo actually launched, I had been up for at the very least, 30 hours.

I think in large part you are looking at projects that seem like begging and failing to see there is another person on the other end of the game. Maybe that person wants to realize their dream of making stories in a growing medium you helped create and maybe, just maybe they can afford to feed themselves at the end of the day while they do it. As it stands now, I've set aside about 95% of the funding I actually received just on business expenses. I'm not looking at this from a single game perspective either, but I plan to keep developing. Most of us will use Kickstarter for it's intended purpose, others will use it for Katawa Shoujo derivatives. In the end I'm still a nobody when it comes to the readers on Lemmasoft, but me especially, who did get funded from Kickstarter used that not only as an incredibly valuable way to get constructive criticism on a project, but to get fans onto your project who didn't even know about you before.

Like any tool it can be used to either create or destroy. I believe that 90% of the people out there are just people like yourself and we believe in something enough to want to make it happen, but financial circumstances often prevent us from being able to without a tool like Kickstarter.

Blue Lemma
Forum Founder
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2003 2:32 pm
Completed: ToL, Shoujo Attack!, Lemma Ten
Projects: [RETIRED FROM FORUM ADMINISTRATION - CONTACT PYTOM WITH ISSUES]
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#83 Post by Blue Lemma »

Taosym wrote:Although you did write the original post in sarcasm, I think there was part of it, maybe a big part of it, that you really felt. You told others not to assume what you were thinking, to pretend they are psychic without knowing you. However some of us who are working on games are experienced. Yes this might be our first VN, but we are not inexperienced. A lot of us are from other fields, and are only recently branching into games, and indie development. I know I've been doing commissions professionally for years prior to working on my game.
I realize my OP might put off some people who've used Kickstarter. My point with the sarcasm was to illustrate the ways the model is backwards, IMO. Just about everything in the OP could be taken literally, yet still be true. Yet it sounds ridiculous, right? Exactly, that was my main point :)

Again, I don't think KS is some evil thing everyone is using to rip off an unsuspecting public, nor do I think KS projects are overall bad. I'm saying the model has ramifications and raises interesting questions beyond just the site itself, among other things.

I only called out one game specifically, by someone not on the forum (at least that I can tell), and that guy said a while back that it was his first game project. There's no need for people to get defensive. I'm stating my issues, thoughts, and experiences, not saying anyone is trying to rip anyone else off or has a crappy project. I really am not familiar with your project or anything you've done, and I don't begrudge anyone raising money.

I am 100% sincere and am not being sarcastic when I say I think more people should get on there. Take what can be a sweet deal and don't end up where I am right now - you know, sounding like a happyfuzzy rainer. :P
“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.”
- Napoleon Bonaparte


I've retired from forum administration. I do not add people to the "adult" group, deactivate accounts, nor any other administrative task. Please direct admin/mod issues to PyTom or the other mods : )

User avatar
Coren
Mindscrew Driver
Posts: 1691
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:24 am
Completed: Dear Mariko, Six Rules, Ribbon of Green, RE: Prince of Nigeria, Doppelganger, Cole's Gate Demo, Crimson Rafflesia Demo, Mica: Apoptosis Demo
Projects: Crimson Rafflesia, Mica: Apoptosis, Fantasy Euthanasia
Organization: Soyasushi Productions
Tumblr: CorenBaili
Deviantart: CorenB
Skype: coren.baili
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#84 Post by Coren »

Oh, but it's true that Kickstarter isn't available outside the US and UK?

LVUER
King of Lolies
Posts: 4538
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:57 pm
Completed: R.S.P
Location: Bandung, West Java, Indonesia
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#85 Post by LVUER »

Kirroha wrote:Oh, but it's true that Kickstarter isn't available outside the US and UK?
Yep, it's true. Just try initiating a new kickstarter project on the site. You'll be asked whether you are a UK or US citizen (only).
"Double the princesses, quadruple the fun!" - Haken Browning (SRW-OG Endless Frontier)

DeviantArt Account
MoeToMecha Blog (under construction)
Lolicondria Blog (under construction) <- NSFW

Blue Lemma
Forum Founder
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2003 2:32 pm
Completed: ToL, Shoujo Attack!, Lemma Ten
Projects: [RETIRED FROM FORUM ADMINISTRATION - CONTACT PYTOM WITH ISSUES]
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#86 Post by Blue Lemma »

New Kickstarter project: A Kickstarter-like site that allows people from other countries!

Would they let that one slide? ;)
“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.”
- Napoleon Bonaparte


I've retired from forum administration. I do not add people to the "adult" group, deactivate accounts, nor any other administrative task. Please direct admin/mod issues to PyTom or the other mods : )

Lishy
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#87 Post by Lishy »

Damnit. Is it impossible to use kickstarter as a Canadian? Must I use Indiegogo as an alternative?
-

Cabriolean
Regular
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:59 am
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#88 Post by Cabriolean »

papillon wrote:
Cabriolean wrote:I might feel tempted to run a KickStarter if I had something that was nearly finished (which I thought was amazingly good), but I wouldn't be comfortable putting up a project that was still missing a lot of things....
Isn't that completely against the spirit of what Kickstarter is supposed to be for, though?

It's not meant to be preorders for your almost-completed project, it's meant to be fundraising for projects you otherwise can't make.

(Now, if your project is almost completed but you want to raise funds to create an animated opening for it, that makes a bit more sense.)
I mean that I wouldn't feel comfortable putting up a game which I wasn't absolutely sure would be completed on time, I'd probably give myself 2 months more than I hoped in case I had problems with someone I commissioned, because I've noticed a lot of people on KS, not meeting the release date, and it kind of puts me off donating, I don't have much spare cash, but I used to do a project a fortnight or so before I noticed how many funded products just never happened, it was normally only $1-5. I enjoy doing most asset creation, but I don't really have much artistic or musical talent.

So if I had a basically complete VN, which I thought was really, really good, except for this one tiny little thing which I knew exactly what I wanted for it, but didn't have the skill to make, then I would definitely consider starting a kickstarter/selling a kidney, to replace whatever placeholder things I'd tossed in.

It's fine when everything is kind of mediocre, but I get kind of upset when there is something I can pick out which is noticeably worse than everything else, because then I end up spending all my time working on what is a problem area (I am so sick of my theme tune, that any change makes it seem better, because I've been listening to several different versions of it since mid-March, it's still not great, but the rest of my novel isn't either so it's okay)

So yeah, more like the animated opening, except that it would be to replace something subpar, rather than something new altogether.
I wouldn't want it to be one of those things where people go: "It was okay I guess, but it could have been good if the art/music/textbox, didn't make me want to cry."

Somehow that's much worse than the: "It was fine."

Yes, I am struggling with my textbox, but this is my first entire VN, and I want to do it all myself, because it's my precious little baby.....

User avatar
Obscura
Eileen-Class Veteran
Posts: 1431
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:58 pm
Projects: Coming Out On Top
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#89 Post by Obscura »

papillon wrote:Most people have to invest at least a little bit to get their concept art and videos and the like ready for pitch, don't they?
I don't know about anyone else, but getting my demo together cost me a couple of hundred bucks in art (a lot of it went unused for a variety of reasons). I ended up buying a new PC (for the SOLE purpose of using Sai, which doesn't run on Macs), a second monitor, an Intuos tablet, and all kinds of software because the art from the first iteration of my game wasn't acceptable.

That was easily over 2 grand all said and done.

On top of that went 2 weeks straight of unpaid leave, in addition to a lot of scattered unpaid leave throughout the 4 months up releasing the demo.
Lishy wrote:Damnit. Is it impossible to use kickstarter as a Canadian? Must I use Indiegogo as an alternative?
I think you're going to have to use Indiegogo (or another site) until Kickstarter gets on the ball. You can still get funding, but you MUST make sure you do enough marketing prior to launching your project. It's much harder to find out about Indiegogo campaigns. But whether you use KS or Indiegogo, I highly recommend finding your audience before you get on those sites.
Taosym wrote:Especially since I would wake up, draw for my work, and then any free time was spent on Dizzy Hearts, then I'd go to sleep, for a long time, this was my life. In the four months leading up to releasing the demo, I was transitioning into game development as a nearly full time job, and working 16 hours a day, nearly 7 days a week. I think the day before the demo actually launched, I had been up for at the very least, 30 hours.
This was close to my experience. I started prepping for my launch non-stop months ahead of time--I think I considered crowdfunding half a year before I actually launched. In July I had my first demo ready, I had to go back and relaunch it after having people express their criticisms over the artwork. I have never had so many successive nights of sleep deprivation, which only gets worse when you start your campaign.

I am fairly sure I could have launched without a demo and gotten some funding--if people like your idea, you'll get SOME money thrown at you (which I know is your point, Lemma.) The demo (both the complete original and later truncated version) was important more for MY SAKE, because I needed to know how long it was going to take to hammer out a path and implement the art assets, and also to know what people thought of my writing and presentation. Again, I had a complete route for one guy even before I launched, so I got a sense if people actually liked what they played, beginning to end. I would recommend going at least that far to to anybody who is actually thinking of crowdfunding--make sure you know what the heck is involved in putting together a compelling story! That last 10% of polish will just about KILL YOU.

I know you're trying to encourage people to crowdfund, Lemma, but it's really not as simple as you say it is (unless of course you want people to fall on their own sword.) Yes, I've actually ranted about Kickstarters myself, if you can believe it. Kickstarters without any demo whatsoever, or lacking even images of gameplay, that made me roll my eyes as they neared the $100K mark.

But you know, whatever. That's how so-and-so does things, and who so-and-so likes to back, and when it comes right down to it, it's not really a concern of mine. It seems to me most people on this board would like to try crowdfunding something AND not want to wake up hating themselves in the morning. So just encouraging people to crowdfund without taking all the steps involved to maximize their chances of success seems a bit like overkill.
Coming Out On Top - An Adult Gay Dating Sim
website

User avatar
jack_norton
Lemma-Class Veteran
Posts: 4084
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:41 pm
Completed: Too many! See my homepage
Projects: A lot! See www.winterwolves.com
Tumblr: winterwolvesgames
Contact:

Re: Everyone Kickstart Yo!

#90 Post by jack_norton »

What people don't know (and Kickstarter doesn't show) is that for 1 successfully funded project, at least 10 aren't (or more). And I'm not talking about $50-100k projects but even smaller $5k ones. So it's not like is an instant win as Lemma says :wink:
Take a month, count all kickstarter for GAMES (and this includes not just VNs!) and see how many are funded after 30 days. If you check VNs I think the percentage might even be smaller (unless they asked $500 lol).
follow me on Image Image Image
computer games

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users