"Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

A place to discuss things that aren't specific to any one creator or game.
Forum rules
Ren'Py specific questions should be posted in the Ren'Py Questions and Annoucements forum, not here.
Message
Author
User avatar
wordlesswriter
Regular
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:31 am
Projects: ~La Dame de la Mer~
Contact:

"Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#1 Post by wordlesswriter » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:48 pm

Hey, everyone. Been a while.
I know there are several ways to do quick time event-style operations in Ren'Py. First, there's the basic "timed menu" route. I personally dislike this one, but that's because it doesn't always give me enough time to read the choices. The other way I know of is using screens to initiate an event like "Press A now!" I've been wondering if there's another way to do this- like creating a meter that rises when you tap the X key, and the event succeeds/fails based on if you fill the meter in time or not.

But the real question I've been wondering about is how other players feel about these sorts of things. Do you use quick timed events in your projects? Have you played VNs recently that managed to use them really well? How would you feel about a QTE like the last one I mentioned in a game?
Image

User avatar
Fairy Godfeather
Regular
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:20 am
Contact:

Re: "Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#2 Post by Fairy Godfeather » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:59 pm

Sorry I can't help on the code stuff. I can just give my personal opinions.

I hate timed events. I don't see the point in them and I just find them frustrating. I haven't actually played much visual novels but I do encounter timed events in other games. I almost always suck terribly at them and I find they add a difficulty level that I just don't need.

Worse yet if it's numbers flashing up on the screen that I have to hit in a specific rhythm. Or arrows. Or sequences I need to memorise. For me they add absolutely nothing.

Now I know it does at least mix up the gameplay but I just dislike that the story ends up relying on something artificial, like my reaction time and the speed of my computer as opposed to the choices I make.

User avatar
wordlesswriter
Regular
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:31 am
Projects: ~La Dame de la Mer~
Contact:

Re: "Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#3 Post by wordlesswriter » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:33 pm

Fairy Godfeather wrote:Sorry I can't help on the code stuff. I can just give my personal opinions.

I hate timed events. I don't see the point in them and I just find them frustrating. I haven't actually played much visual novels but I do encounter timed events in other games. I almost always suck terribly at them and I find they add a difficulty level that I just don't need.

Worse yet if it's numbers flashing up on the screen that I have to hit in a specific rhythm. Or arrows. Or sequences I need to memorise. For me they add absolutely nothing.

Now I know it does at least mix up the gameplay but I just dislike that the story ends up relying on something artificial, like my reaction time and the speed of my computer as opposed to the choices I make.
Yeah, the pressing arrows in sequence thing drives me nuts too. >.< I was stuck on something like that in an RPG for a while because my laptop has tiny, squished up arrow keys.
Image

User avatar
Fairy Godfeather
Regular
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:20 am
Contact:

Re: "Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#4 Post by Fairy Godfeather » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:42 pm

There's been more than one game I've played which I've absolutely loved right up until an event that requires skill or is timed. There was one adventure game that I was really enjoying and then it switched to a shooter and I just couldn't get past the shooting section. It was so frustrating and despite being good at the puzzles it meant the game went unfinished. The whole shooting section was absolutely pointless too. Actually come to think of it there's been multiple adventure games which have had shooting sections where I've just got stuck and given up on the game. Some of them have been of the press a button at the right time variety.

What do you think having a quick-time section will add to your game?

User avatar
Nuxill
Veteran
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:50 pm
Projects: No Friend
Tumblr: nuxill
itch: nuxill
Contact:

Re: "Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#5 Post by Nuxill » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:45 pm

I'm not a fan of quicktime events either and I personally don't think it would be a good idea to put them in. The only time it doesn't feel cheap is when I'm playing an entire game based around them, like a rhythm game or something. Adding it to give your game 'action' is the wrong way to approach things imo.

User avatar
Fairy Godfeather
Regular
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:20 am
Contact:

Re: "Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#6 Post by Fairy Godfeather » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:01 pm

I was just thinking about this a little more, especially Nuxill's comment above.

I think the most powerful tool to invoke a sense of immediacy and urgency in a visual novel is the same one that's frequently used by television shows and movies: music. Music's an extremely powerful way to set a mood. People are used to taking their cues from it. I'd suggest that instead of working on creating a quicktime effect work on some way to use sound effects, music, or even visual effects to achieve what you want.

User avatar
wordlesswriter
Regular
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:31 am
Projects: ~La Dame de la Mer~
Contact:

Re: "Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#7 Post by wordlesswriter » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:03 pm

Fairy Godfeather wrote:There's been more than one game I've played which I've absolutely loved right up until an event that requires skill or is timed. There was one adventure game that I was really enjoying and then it switched to a shooter and I just couldn't get past the shooting section. It was so frustrating and despite being good at the puzzles it meant the game went unfinished. The whole shooting section was absolutely pointless too. Actually come to think of it there's been multiple adventure games which have had shooting sections where I've just got stuck and given up on the game. Some of them have been of the press a button at the right time variety.

What do you think having a quick-time section will add to your game?
Well, in the case I would be using it, you'd be playing as a character with what would be an "Anger Point" counter which would be raised or lowered based on how interactions go with certain characters. In certain instances, letting your "Anger meter" reach the the max would lead to a bad end. The meter idea was really more of an idea to allow people to recover from potential blunders- a second-chance thing like that.
Fairy Godfeather wrote:I was just thinking about this a little more, especially Nuxill's comment above.

I think the most powerful tool to invoke a sense of immediacy and urgency in a visual novel is the same one that's frequently used by television shows and movies: music. Music's an extremely powerful way to set a mood. People are used to taking their cues from it. I'd suggest that instead of working on creating a quicktime effect work on some way to use sound effects, music, or even visual effects to achieve what you want.
But in otome VNs, people will obviously choose the most agreeable conversation options/actions. I suppose one way to do it without a quick time event would be to change what conversation options are available based on said "Anger points". But I personally feel like that a quick time-esque event would properly simulate the kind of self-control people have to practice when they get angry. I do understand the "gimmicky" part, though.
Image

User avatar
LVUER
King of Lolies
Posts: 4538
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:57 pm
Completed: R.S.P
Location: Bandung, West Java, Indonesia
Contact:

Re: "Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#8 Post by LVUER » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:19 pm

I don't think quick time event is suitable for Visual Novels, unless you're making an action gameplay part into that VN. But if you do make that action part, RenPy is not really suitable for making that kind of game.

I do have plans making QTE in my game (and I made a collab RPG games using RPG maker that heavily employs QTE several years ago), but it's an action game, not VN.
"Double the princesses, quadruple the fun!" - Haken Browning (SRW-OG Endless Frontier)

DeviantArt Account
MoeToMecha Blog (under construction)
Lolicondria Blog (under construction) <- NSFW

User avatar
DaFool
Lemma-Class Veteran
Posts: 4171
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:39 pm
Contact:

Re: "Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#9 Post by DaFool » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:30 pm

Yeah QTEs frustrate me in console games when I'm able to beat a boss using my own skill and all of a sudden I have to press a button sequence which I didn't expect at all since I was expecting a non-interactive death sequence and resolution cutscene.

But if I were to make a VN for tablet, a kinetic novel especially, I'd include optional QTE and make it consistent and regular enough in many scenes so as not to feel coming out of nowhere. Placing QTEs in VNs that feature combat will then make them no different than QTEs in console games, which players have already become used to. Also, QTEs can have aesthetic effects... like if I were making an ecchi game, QTEs can be the means to strip clothes off characters.

Basically the point is you can use these kinds of gimmicks but they shouldn't feel like coming from left field, the player must be warned before hand of these things and they must be consistently implemented.

User avatar
LVUER
King of Lolies
Posts: 4538
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:57 pm
Completed: R.S.P
Location: Bandung, West Java, Indonesia
Contact:

Re: "Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#10 Post by LVUER » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:37 pm

DaFool wrote:Also, QTEs can have aesthetic effects... like if I were making an ecchi game, QTEs can be the means to strip clothes off characters.
That's ... A GOOD IDEA ;)

In PC which have so many buttons (A-Z, 0-9, and various other buttons), which one will be used?
"Double the princesses, quadruple the fun!" - Haken Browning (SRW-OG Endless Frontier)

DeviantArt Account
MoeToMecha Blog (under construction)
Lolicondria Blog (under construction) <- NSFW

User avatar
wordlesswriter
Regular
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:31 am
Projects: ~La Dame de la Mer~
Contact:

Re: "Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#11 Post by wordlesswriter » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:47 pm

LVUER wrote:I don't think quick time event is suitable for Visual Novels, unless you're making an action gameplay part into that VN. But if you do make that action part, RenPy is not really suitable for making that kind of game.

I do have plans making QTE in my game (and I made a collab RPG games using RPG maker that heavily employs QTE several years ago), but it's an action game, not VN.
Hmm. Well, it wouldn't be the ideal format for this particular idea, but I have been keeping RPG maker in mind for other projects.
But out of curiosity, where do you draw the line between a VN with some action game elements and an action game with VN elements?

@DaFool: So in your opinion, QTE are okay as an established part of gameplay. Good to know there's someone else with my opinion. ^_^; Obviously, in the case of a direct to a bad end, I'd have a retry button that brings you back to the portion you failed. Granted, I'm not really sure how difficult that would be to implement coding-wise.
Image

User avatar
Fairy Godfeather
Regular
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:20 am
Contact:

Re: "Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#12 Post by Fairy Godfeather » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:51 pm

Well I would think it would depend on the player and the story which options they choose. I'd actually imagine that someone would choose every single option eventually, and they'd pick the ones that best fit their playthrough.

If anger's an important part of your game though, you could have an anger meter. Keep track of every time someone says something that's annoying and bump up the anger meter. Allow the character to blow off steam by choosing snarky responses which will reduce their anger meter. If they bottle up their anger and choose the nice options throughout then they're just heading for a complete explosion where the only option they'll have is a burning red KILL HIM NOW!!! I think that would at least have the same effect.

Or just provide angry options and flash the screen red and make the player go grrr and get annoyed and want to choose the angry replies. The nice path isn't usually the fun path.

User avatar
KimiYoriBaka
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 636
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 8:15 pm
Projects: Castle of Arhannia
Contact:

Re: "Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#13 Post by KimiYoriBaka » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:56 pm

since so far the discussion has been on whether or not QTE's are a good idea, I thought I'd post a response to the other question in original post.

Press X to not die screen. perfect for invoking the wrath of a certain game critic

Code: Select all

screen QTE:
    default needed_input = "x"
    default needed_input_string = "X"
    key default needed_input action Jump(success_label)
    timer 5.0 Jump(death_label)
    text ("Press " + needed_input_string + " to not die!" align (.1, .1)

label start:
    "I'm just walking along"
    $ success_label = 'dodge'
    $ death_label = 'hit_by_knife'
    show screen QTE
    while True:
       "Hmm...what's that object flying towards me?"

label dodge:
    "I dodge the random knife by just a hair!"
    return

label hit_by_knife:
    "Aaaaug!  There's a knife in my forehead!"
    return
to do this with multiple required inputs, you would need to check the system time before showing the screen, then have the required input change the amount for the timer based on how much time has past since the screen was first shown. the reason to use the system time, rather than relying on the screen's timer itself is cause it will lag if the player inputs things too quickly.

it would probably work better to use a creator-defined displayable, but that takes more time to write than I have at the moment.

User avatar
SHiNKiROU
Regular
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:23 pm
Contact:

Re: "Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#14 Post by SHiNKiROU » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:12 pm

I wouldn't incorporate a QTE in a visual novel because a VN does not test the player's reflex. If the VN has minigames that test reflex, QTE is acceptable.
It's acceptable for Mass Effect because it is half action.

Also, QTE should be "press any key" instead of "press X". The player can miss the first few QTEs for finding the key.

User avatar
LVUER
King of Lolies
Posts: 4538
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:57 pm
Completed: R.S.P
Location: Bandung, West Java, Indonesia
Contact:

Re: "Press X to not Die"- Opinions on Quick Time Events

#15 Post by LVUER » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:33 pm

wordlesswriter wrote:But out of curiosity, where do you draw the line between a VN with some action game elements and an action game with VN elements?
Nowadays they kinda blend in, don't they? Lots of game is presented with VN formats. For me, it's which one have more portion.
"Double the princesses, quadruple the fun!" - Haken Browning (SRW-OG Endless Frontier)

DeviantArt Account
MoeToMecha Blog (under construction)
Lolicondria Blog (under construction) <- NSFW

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users