Choices that do not matter

[SHiNKiROU]

How many choices that do not count toward the ending should be in a VN? For example, a choice of redeeming a person or letting him die, it allows the reader to express moral values, but does not affect the ending. Another common example is choosing an event to participate, and the event to participate only changes what you see for one chapter.

I have a friendship subplot that takes one out of three chapters, but I believe it won't affect the ending, except I can write an epilogue mentioning it.

[Nuxill]

I would say "whatever feels right to you" even though that's kind of a cop out answer.

When you feel like it would be a good place to allow the player to have a choice is where you should put them, whether that choice will allow for something to happen to the characters later on or allow the player to see a different piece of the story that they might not have seen otherwise. If that makes sense?

As long as it does something for the story it's cool with me. Though I would probably give the player a bit of a breather between choices, so based on how many you have you might try to space them out appropriately.

[Taleweaver]

All choices matter. They matter to the player who takes them because they give him a way to interact with the story. While some players expect that their decisions should also have an effect on the outcome of the story, definitely not everybody does, and a story usually doesn't get worse if the player can take a few decisions here and there, even if they don't change anything. Most players are satisfied with a few additional/changed lines of dialogue.

I remember one old mikey game, though I can't say which. The last decision in the game was: "I choose girl a / I choose girl b". The game ended immediately after this choice. No additional lines, no CG, no effect on the story whatsoever because "I choose X" was literally the last line in the game. And I still found this very satisfying because it allowed you, as the player, to continue the story in your head.

[dramspringfeald]

...Where to begin?

How many choices that do not count toward the ending should be in a VN?

As many as it takes. Every action you are having the player make MUST have an outcome. Hell even FF7 had them. (Look up the date mechanics)

For example, a choice of redeeming a person or letting him die, it allows the reader to express moral values, but does not affect the ending.

This again? Are you the Same one who was asking "what value is a characters life?" then asked is it okay "to knock off grandma?" to show that the "worlf" isn't as safe and to "teach" the player a lesson? Again, unless it has meaning then don't do it. Plane and Simple. Unless there is something in it for the Character and the player alike then leave them alone. I bet you want to microwave a cat or something.

Another common example is choosing an event to participate, and the event to participate only changes what you see for one chapter.

Wrong, in most games there are sub counters that add or subtract points with a person of interest and by losing or winning you gain points or not with that girl. That or Winning unlocks items/powers/MacGuffins to unlock super toys in the game. I'm not sure what games you have been playing but remember they ALWAYS count.

I have a friendship subplot that takes one out of three chapters, but I believe it won't affect the ending, except I can write an epilogue mentioning it.

Then don't have it. Unless that friend sub plot Either ends with him pushing the main character to win the target OR he himself gets one then LEAVE IT OUT. You can maybe make that "friend" the hero of his own game but beyond that "Unless it moves the story; Nix it"

[TrickWithAKnife]

Not every choice has to change the final result, but they should feel that they make a difference.
Take Mass Effect 3 as an example. You get pretty much the same ending no matter what you choose, but the journey changes depending on choices.

Even in my case, there will be story arcs that may be accessible or possibly missed depending on choices. They may not all affect the ending, but they will change the experience.

If the choices just change the next line of dialogue, then it's not really worthwhile, and players are going to feel like what they so doesn't matter.

[dramspringfeald]

then it's not really worthwhile, and players are going to feel like what they so doesn't matter.

Unless that IS the point of the game but I have yet to see ANYONE pull that off well. God that would be a downer game.

[EroBotan]

How many choices that do not count toward the ending should be in a VN?

Ideally, it will be as much as the game need it. If the game needs 5 of them then ideally you should give it 5, not more since it can make your game feels longer than needed AKA boring ^^;( less probably okay though since it will also increase the chance of you completing the game since you will have less stuff to write)

For example, a choice of redeeming a person or letting him die, it allows the reader to express moral values, but does not affect the ending. Another common example is choosing an event to participate, and the event to participate only changes what you see for one chapter.

I have a friendship subplot that takes one out of three chapters, but I believe it won't affect the ending, except I can write an epilogue mentioning it.

I have no problem with this, some RPG do this and they work well ( neverwinter nights - well, actually most RPG made by bioware , princess maker series ). It helps lessen your burden as a developer since you don't have to make tons of ending for every choice. It also gives the feeling that your game is complex even though you only has 1 or 2 major endings. So yeah, do it

[SundownKid]

As with Mass Effect, the choices don't necessarily have to modify the story itself. Even though the ending was pulled off very badly in ME, choices can affect the characters without changing the overarching plot, or just modifying the plot to have different events occur. It doesn't necessarily have to diverge completely into a BAD END.

[dramspringfeald]

There are about 13000 paths in ME- ME3. Everything you do effects the next. everything from who makes it to the end to what anyone says to you and missions. yes there are 6/9 total core endings but each of those is shaped by YOUR actions.

[Razz]

I think of they don't matter they should at least be INTERESTING. Asking stuff like "whats your favorite food kento-kun?"
1. sashimi
2. rice
3.hamburgers

"oh that is great kento-kun". Pointless and uninteresting. Same goes with "which path should we take?"
1. the left path
2. the right path

"Why did you pick 1 kento-kun? Lets go right." Zzzzz.

[EroBotan]

I think of they don't matter they should at least be INTERESTING. Asking stuff like "whats your favorite food kento-kun?"
1. sashimi
2. rice
3.hamburgers

"oh that is great kento-kun". Pointless and uninteresting. Same goes with "which path should we take?"
1. the left path
2. the right path

"Why did you pick 1 kento-kun? Lets go right." Zzzzz.

Don't worry, all of the choices are matters, they just don't effect the major ending. probably they're kinda like side quest if you want to compare it in RPG. Yeah, the thread title is kinda misleading I think.

[Fox Lee]

If the main character is an avatar, or my character (like in a western RPG) then I love getting meaningless choices. For me there is value in getting to contribute to the story, even if it's only the ability to express your character/avatar more appropriately and has next to no effect on anything.

[KimiYoriBaka]

If the choices just change the next line of dialogue, then it's not really worthwhile, and players are going to feel like what they so doesn't matter.

even so, I would think having some of the choices do this would be fine, as that gives off more the feel that it's hard to tell when choices matter, just like in real life.

also, I think games with frequent choices should avoid having too long of intervals between choices because that can break the game's flow. (e.g. katawa shoujo shizune route) in that case, a few meaningless choices could be necessary to fill in the gaps.

[ViRiX Dreamcore]

Every choice can't have huge direct effects on the ending, otherwise each choice will lead to a potentially different ending. In my project, while some of the choices may not affect the ending, they do lead to some different paths and other interesting bits of dialogue. Also if you think of it like a line, then all the different choices have to tie in to a few different endings when the story is over anyway.

I often have issues trying to figure what should and shouldn't be choices. I have one choice that I might remove, just because I can't think of any meaningful storylines to go with it. I simply put it in there 'cause I could. You probably want to avoid that and making EVERY SINGLE thing a choice unless you have a plan as to how you're going to use these... otherwise it stops feeling like a VN and starts feeling like a quiz.

[wordlesswriter]

I think of they don't matter they should at least be INTERESTING. Asking stuff like "whats your favorite food kento-kun?"
1. sashimi
2. rice
3.hamburgers

"oh that is great kento-kun". Pointless and uninteresting. Same goes with "which path should we take?"
1. the left path
2. the right path

"Why did you pick 1 kento-kun? Lets go right." Zzzzz.

I can somewhat forgive this sort of thing if it serves a purpose or leads to some amusing dialogue. For example, there's this one moment in Virtue's Last Reward where Phi is trying to explain the multiple worlds theory to the MC, and she tells you to "just do something". The game gives you around 10 action options- one of which was "Moonwalk"- which results in the following dialogue:

MC: *slide* *slide* *slide*

Phi: What the hell was that?!

MC: I was doing the moonwalk.

Phi: You're supposed to move backwards!

MC: I was! Watch-
MC: *slide* *slide* *slide*

Phi: Ugh, whatever! (Continues explanation as scripted.)

In your first example, it'd be a lot better if, through your choice, we learn something else about the character. Like if they go off on a tangent about how their mom makes the best hamburgers, or if they don't like sashimi because they don't like how slimy it is. That sort of thing.

In response to the OP, I think that those sorts of options are great, as long as the game doesn't force you all the time (see the second example Razz gave) and the results can develop either the protagonist or other characters.