Techniques in making authentic GxB game

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DaFool
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Techniques in making authentic GxB game

#1 Post by DaFool » Tue May 15, 2007 12:11 pm

Inspired by another thread.

Basically, I already have a complete working skeleton for a GxB game, and I need help improving it. I don't want people reading it to exclaim "Haha, evidently written by a dude, that's why it's so lame!"

I notice it's a bit more challenging planning events for GxB compared to BxG. Even BxB and GxG can be written easily if they are written from the pursuer's point of view. But how about GxB?

The easiest way to manage decision points, I noticed, is simply for the girl to go where the guys are. This place = this guy (e.g. Drawn to You). But I am more curious about possible other techniques. One mechanic I am currently using is various flirtations. E.g. cute giggle = attracts this guy; stalwart stare = attracts this other dude. Although I only used it in one decision point so far -- the rest are pretty much constrained by the story.

As for the characters, based somewhat on a hodge-podge of real people, I think I got the authenticity in that department...hopefully.

Maybe those who have previously made GxB can enlighten us, thanks.

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#2 Post by lordcloudx » Tue May 15, 2007 12:29 pm

how bout.
Girl sees a cute absent-minded looking guy wearing earphones.

"Hey you!"
"Huh?"
"What are you listening to?"

ripped from Genshiken episode 1.
How do you make your games? I see. Thank you for the prompt replies, but it is my considered opinion that you're doing it wrong inefficiently because I am a perfushenal professional. Do it my way this way and we can all ascend VN Nirvana together while allowing me to stroke my ego you will improve much faster. Also, please don't forget to thank me for this constructive critique or I will cry and bore you to death respond appropriately with a tl;dr rant discourse of epic adequately lengthy proportions. - Sarcasm Veiled in Euphemism: Secrets of Forum Civility by lordcloudx (Coming soon to an online ebook near you.)

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#3 Post by DaFool » Tue May 15, 2007 12:49 pm

hmmm...
yeah guys don't need pickup lines...the fact that a girl is talking to you at all is attractive enough...she doesn't even need to be that cute.

btw, all the characters I have are tsunderes (although only the protagonist is playable). Don't ask :wink:

Pedobear

#4 Post by Pedobear » Tue May 15, 2007 12:53 pm

Sorry... need to hide my identity for now
I notice it's a bit more challenging planning events for GxB compared to BxG.
Not really... Just let your Evil Sexual Fetishes take over and think out of the Box... the rest will be easy.

I already have a scene like that (There is a little Girls POV section in my project) and in my case it goes like this...

Girl sees Teacher and... (You know, the usual standard operating procedures)

Girl stalks teacher (for several weeks)

Girl decided to confess but turned down (Well, you will have a choice)

Girl finally decided to do things the quick and easy way and kidnaps poor teacher.

Girl (Insert BEEP and Wild Imagination Here) for several weeks.

...and they live happily ever after (Oh man!... Me and my Evil Imagination).

...Goes back to work

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#5 Post by Hime » Tue May 15, 2007 1:06 pm

Well, you could break the cliché and make the girl be the pursuer. Because in reality, girls like the exist, unlike in fiction... Oh, it would be so nice to play a game like that, actually. Especially if there would be a cute, quiet and shy boy. (Those exist as well! Though never in ren'ai...) Or you could make a Other Age-like approach, where the girl meets just one boy, and who she meets is determined by her earlier choices (interests, for example). Or you could make it a "everyone loves you, make a choice"-type game. In other words, every boy comes to the girl, and the girl decides who she likes the most and if their conversation went well... She gets him.

And ah, tsunderes. Sounds good. :D

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#6 Post by mikey » Tue May 15, 2007 1:50 pm

DaFool wrote:btw, all the characters I have are tsunderes...
What are tsunderes? :?

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#7 Post by yummy » Tue May 15, 2007 2:16 pm

A tsundere is a character (generally a girl or a teen girl) which is so timid she acts quite the opposite way she'd have liked to act. So generally a tsundere is quite easy to anger (and she'd show her anger quite furiously).
Actually, that's only a fake show of her real emotions. She's actually emotionally vulnerable and on most of the cases, once she's in love, that love is a very passionate one.

There's an article in wikipedia if you want :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsundere

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#8 Post by monele » Tue May 15, 2007 3:43 pm

a cute, quiet and shy boy. (Those exist as well! Though never in ren'ai...)
Mmm... I guess they're rarely protagonists, but for girl-oriented games, there should be some ô_o... At least in Tokimeki Memorial Girl's Side.
Side note : so the quiet and shy type *does* attract? I kinda lost hope >.>...

DaFool : hmm... I like the idea of acting a certain way. It could allow players to act as a natural (acting shy because they'd act shy) but also act in specific ways when they know it'll get them the boy ;)... but ok, maybe that's allowed in all the ren'ai games to some extent... just depends how you interpret the choices :).

Mm... Something I still want to see in VNs (might have been done already as I haven't played all the recent games o_O) is the "say something, keep to your words" test. Some girls might not mind, but others could hate liars?
And also, choices based on observation/memory. You might to remember/guess the tastes of a girl depending on her actions... either direct (she picks the strawberry icecream = she likes it) or indirect ones (she seemed bored during the geography and maths classes... what's left for her to like?).

I suppose a good thing in the end would be to vary choice types. Have straightforward choices along with subtle ones.

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#9 Post by PrettySammy09 » Tue May 15, 2007 9:30 pm

Well, I can tell you right now that there are stereotypes in GxB games just as much as in BxG games. The stereotypes may be different, but they're still there. And most of them can be found in shojo manga.

I'll name off a few:

The "Hero" - This is usually the all-around nice guy who's got it all. Attractive, smart, funny, and the girl really likes him, but he seems to not think of her that way. This character and the protaganist are usually friends, and the hero is often a bit dense.

The "Mature Older Guy" - This guy is usually much older than the protaganist (maybe a teacher or mentor) and has a sensitive side to him that the other characters lack. He's mature, brave, and protects the protaganist from trouble. He's often fun to be around as well.

The "Twisted Dark Past Emo Boy" - (Okay, so his name might be a little twisted, but this is usually what he is) This is the character with the dark past and an even darker soul. The protaganist's main job is to "heal" his heart. He's usually a total jerk to the protaganist until he reveals his true deep feelings for her! (This is the guy I like. XD Go figure.)

The "Younger Kid" - This is usually a younger boy who clings to the heroine and desperately wants to get stronger to impress her. He's often at odds with the Hero, who represents everything the younger kid is not. The younger kid can either be innocent or sarcastic, but not both. Sometimes, the younger kid is even the most mature of the cast, although he acts juvenile on the outside.

The "Drop Dead Gorgeous Bishi" - This guy is usually almost feminine in appearance, and all the girls are in love with him. He's popular, fun to be around, and, most of all, gorgeous. Like, Abercrombie model gorgeous. Sometimes, he's even mistaken for a woman he's so pretty. Usually, his pretty looks are only an exterior to the deep soul that is longing for true companionship.

The "Funny Guy" - This guy cracks jokes all the time, most of them not very funny. However, he's usually tough when he needs to be, and is a great source of comic relief. He wants to impress the protaganist and is often friends with the Hero.

The "Clueless Dude" - This guy is usually totally clueless about everything going on around him. He's a newbie to girls especially, and is really shy and awkward around them. He longs for the protaganist, but the protaganist can't really see them together (that is, until they fall madly in love).

You can combine a lot of these to make more deep characters, and you can of course expand on them. Just giving you the heads up on some techniques.

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#10 Post by DaFool » Tue May 15, 2007 9:48 pm

Ah, thanks... now I now how to work the cliches :D

With no effort at all on my part, the cast of male characters in my script consists of the following (note the hybrid of stereotypes):

"Mature Twisted Dark Past Emo Older Guy" - X 2 !

"The "Funny Guy" " = x 2!

"Clueless Hero Dude" x 1

For total 5 dudes. The premise is not a reverse harem (i.e. the twisted and funny guys are not 'winnable')... basically its either fight for Clueless Hero Dude or else another tsundere competitor gobbles him up. (The rewards are basically the guys having "additional cameos", since making them winnable will totally screw my hardcore science fiction plot and the roles they have in it.)

But this is all regarding a game I haven't yet decided what to do with yet, whether to rework, submit, delay, etc... so no guarantees... and I might change things, so...

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#11 Post by Sethaniel » Tue May 15, 2007 11:19 pm

I would so totally play a game whose tagline was "Fight for Clueless Hero Dude!"
Seriously.
Actually, that's an idea I haven't seen much in the ren'ai I've played-- the "fight for the guy or some other girl will get him/ fight for the girl or some other guy will get her." Usually it's "you pick which one you want."

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#12 Post by monele » Wed May 16, 2007 3:30 am

"The emo guy". I wondered for a long time about what *how* they could be appealing, until I realized it was all about unlocking their inner feelings and sweetness. They're really just male tsunderes eh?

DaFool : does that mean there's only one winnable guy? ô_o...

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#13 Post by DaFool » Wed May 16, 2007 8:36 am

monele wrote:"
DaFool : does that mean there's only one winnable guy? ô_o...
That is the main limitation for a story that is relatively short for a VN, but relatively long for a one-shot script. I originally intended this to be a kinetic novel convertable to manga. I found out that additional paths would make it a bit more interesting... but I'm not willing to make a full-on choices VN since that would make it harder to reverse port. The emphasis was on story rather than gameplay. Although, I did make sure that the additional paths didn't feel 'tacked on'.

Of course, that means I have to make sure the main guy has to be broadly appealing, but this is the challenge of any romance story that only has one main pairing.

Oh, an another thing, two of the characters are Dads (in fact there is a father-son pair.). I'm thinking of getting rid of their parental roles, but if girls are into FILF (Father I'd Like to F___) as much as I'm into MILFs, then I'll keep them.

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#14 Post by chronoluminaire » Wed May 16, 2007 9:16 am

Sethaniel wrote:Actually, that's an idea I haven't seen much in the ren'ai I've played-- the "fight for the guy or some other girl will get him/ fight for the girl or some other guy will get her." Usually it's "you pick which one you want."
Two of my ideas for Beautiful Days (the huge sprawling military-academy high-school romance dating sim I was planning that was never going to get anywhere) was one girl who starts off in a relationship with another guy, and another girl who'll normally get together with the protagonist's best male friend about a third of the way through the story unless you play a particular way. Both of them are winnable characters with their own storyline, but in one case you need to help her get away from the jerk she's with, and in the other you may need to compete with your best friend in a version of the classic love triangle.

Actually, Crescendo did the girl-in-a-relationship story quite well, as I recall.

And to DaFool, I'd say try to avoid stereotyping girls and boys too much. Girls can ask guys out just as much as guys can ask girls out. The basic scene possibilities are pretty much gender-independent. (Your specific characters may lead to particular challenges, of course, but that's not necessarily to do with it being a GxB story.)
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#15 Post by DaFool » Wed May 16, 2007 10:26 am

chronoluminaire wrote: And to DaFool, I'd say try to avoid stereotyping girls and boys too much. Girls can ask guys out just as much as guys can ask girls out. The basic scene possibilities are pretty much gender-independent. (Your specific characters may lead to particular challenges, of course, but that's not necessarily to do with it being a GxB story.)
Yes. My original concept was a female protagonist in an extremely manly (i.e. harsh and not-so-cute) environment / cruel worldview (think Ghost in the Shell, Kino no Tabi, Blue Submarine #6, Haibane Renmei.) I think I understand how Japanese writers can pull of such stories effectively (the counterpart in the West -- superhero women being sexy in tights -- are not equivalent at all since the stories are so shallow).

I think the writers put an element of their anima http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anima_%28Jung%29 in forming their protagonists. In addition to the natural sympathy one feels towards a female rather than a male character, and the fact that the conflict is a typical masculine struggle (I versus The World), it is no wonder these works have touched many young men (as well as women) and thus consist the best in the shounen and seinen genres.

Well, that's the gist of what I'm aiming for (I doubt I can really deliver even 50% of the effectiveness of any of the mentioned titles...which reminds me I still need to refine the script for more character development, now that the plot is done.). I just thought of just sweetening the deal just a bit so it would appeal to a broader audience, hence my questions.

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