Rating System

[monele]

Well... while erotic games are quite apart from this (in the sense that I really can't believe you can get any without knowing what you're in for ;p... even Critical Point...), it's true about violence and other touchy subjects.
In that case, I don't mind having a little indicative box I guess... Not too obstrusive, not too scary (like a big block of warning text).

[Jake]

Well... while erotic games are quite apart from this (in the sense that I really can't believe you can get any without knowing what you're in for ;p... even Critical Point...)

Well, I've not played that particular title, so I can't comment - but the one I have played - True Love - I'm pretty sure it's possible to get most of the way through the game without seeing anything erotic, and the title doesn't give it away. Sure, you know it's a dating game, but that doesn't mean you necessarily know it's a dating game with sex scenes. I mean... Friends has romance in it, and I don't recall so much as a naked breast in that.

[Enerccio]

Well... while erotic games are quite apart from this (in the sense that I really can't believe you can get any without knowing what you're in for ;p... even Critical Point...)

Well, I've not played that particular title, so I can't comment - but the one I have played - True Love - I'm pretty sure it's possible to get most of the way through the game without seeing anything erotic, and the title doesn't give it away. Sure, you know it's a dating game, but that doesn't mean you necessarily know it's a dating game with sex scenes. I mean... Friends has romance in it, and I don't recall so much as a naked breast in that.

Hmm and what will person who hates 18+ images do in that cas? He will shut down that game. That is all, nothing more nothing less.
Its still better than annoying normal players.

[PyTom]

IIRC, Higurashi episodes 1-5 contain the first arc, and the first ep of the second. IIRC some more, the first arc of Higurashi is a bit less messed up then the first... which might means that it merits only a 13+, especially if the company has a scale that jumps from 13+ to 17+.

[DaFool]

Okay, need opinions... especially those people on the forums who can analyze legal speak:

For this example, assume the Mature Content is internationally legal (i.e. nothing which requires mosaic in Japan). Thus, instead of 'Censored' / 'Uncensored' (which sometimes confuses me as 'mosaic' / 'no mosaic'), I use Disabled / Enabled.

Note: 21 years is probably a safer number than 18 years.

Also, how would I directly link an option to quit?
Second question, I know it was answered way back, what part of persistent data checks if a game is ran the first time?


------SPLASH SCREEN------

CASE A: 1st time a game is run, no preferences set

This game has mature sexual content and has been set to disabled by default. To enable it, change the Mature Content toggle in the Preferences screen.

All characters depicted in the nude or engaged in sexual acts are at least 21 years old. By proceeding, you agree it is legal for you to view such content in your country, you are not offended by such content, and will not hold the author liable. If you disagree, kindly exit the game now and remove it.

Options: OK
QUIT


CASE B: 2nd or anytime thereafter a game is run

Please be aware this game has mature sexual content, which is currently set to [Enabled/Disabled]. All characters depicted in the nude or engaged in sexual acts are at least 21 years old.

If it is not legal for you to view such content in your country, or if you dislike seeing such content, it is advised you either quit the game from the Main Menu or disable the Mature Content toggle in the Preferences screen. The author shall not be held liable.

Options: OK

[Alessio]

All characters depicted in the nude or engaged in sexual acts are at least 21 years old.

My goodness. And if I claim that the main protagonist is actually a 300-year-old witch who transformed herself so she looks like 16?

[Otaku Dash]

All characters depicted in the nude or engaged in sexual acts are at least 21 years old.

My goodness. And if I claim that the main protagonist is actually a 300-year-old witch who transformed herself so she looks like 16?

Then you would have a pukefest xD

Lol jokes aside you do have a point... but the warning gives a clear idea of what to expect later in the game... though I dunno if later authors would want to break the law and put characters with lower ages that they represent.

[Enerccio]

All characters depicted in the nude or engaged in sexual acts are at least 21 years old.

My goodness. And if I claim that the main protagonist is actually a 300-year-old witch who transformed herself so she looks like 16?

no she will definitelly looks 18
even if you draw her as 12 years old, she will be 18 ^^
That is why is all this eighteening funny as hell.
We know that, creator know that, lawyers know that, but they cannot do anything about it ^^.

[DaFool]

Okay, something really wrong with the Tokyopop ratings system, which affects my game:

Under OT(16+), you're only limited to showing implied sexual acts, which mean "four legs sticking out under the sheet." I don't know about you, but I don't see any pleasure in drawing four legs sticking out.

The thing is though, the next level up, M(18+), is already 'overt', which means you can portray genitals. But I don't like genitals...they're ugly.

I seriously want something in between so that you can see that people are evidently making love (not implied), but without having to see the nasties including bodily fluids. (i.e. the difference between a mature shoujo title versus a mature h-doujin).

Therefore, I shall define my category of R(17+) which fits completely with the current movie rating standard of Restricted... you see nice butts, perky breasts, and people on top of each other... but no genitals.

[Sethaniel]

You know, from the drawings of the Higurashi characters, I wouldn't guess that it was a violent horror story. They really are drawn in a cutesy-cartoon way.

Anyway, should there be a difference between "you definitely *will* see . . ." and "you *might* see. . ." ?
Y'know, like in a lot of VNs, you might only see lovemaking if you get the best ending.

[lordcloudx]

this is from a law student, so don't take it as legal advice... just yet.

Note: 21 years is probably a safer number than 18 years.

If you're still in the Philippines, 18 is fine under the new civil code and whether you go with case A or B, you won't be held liable if you release anytime soon while there are no laws against what you plan to do yet. So long as you don't make a glaring effort to distribute this type of digital content in areas (other states) where you know very well that it's strictly prohibited, no one can touch you (legally anyway).

Under Philippine Jurisdiction, fanfics, visual novels or fanart are (most likely) treated the same way, as digital media. If a case is filed against you, the complaint would probably be dismissed for lack of merit and die a natural death. (saying this without looking at my books, so I won't make promises)

I'm not aware of any known philippine jurisprudence on the subject matter of visual novels or even just publishing digital content non-profit. (none of the administrative agencies who could be a proper party bother to analyze digital content and file appropriate complaints yet. Besides, I doubt our current laws regarding immoral publications covers much on the digital aspect of things yet. Just remember that we rely on judges for decisions in our courts, so their decision needs to be anchored on law, jurisprudence or for lack thereof public policy, good customs and public order)

Also, if anyone (proper party, which would most likely be a government agency in this case) does try to prosecute you, they'd have a hard time proving you're the culprit while following the rules of evidence especially with the xenophobic old **** we have for judges.

I'm being too long-winded. What I want to say is, publish as much fantasy digital content as you want without using actual people and the government won't take notice as long as it doesn't somehow become publicized by the mass-media (highly unlikely)

[F.I.A]

If anything, ratings are there to back the makers of said material up if they are charged for certain issue if viewed by unappropriate consumers. It is somewhat irresponsible, but it is like saying "We already warned that it contain gore and intense violence. It is your own fault to chose to view it when you are not capable of taking it."

Ultimately, nothing can stop a underage to get any game they want with the vast of internet. And nothing can stop them to click "Yes" over every age clarification.

Regarding Higurashi...

Unlike any generic harem anime, you don't see a title that is flowery or happy sounding. But you get a weird name such as Higurashi ni Naku koro ni. I have pretty much expect some gloom story from such title. My own opinion on the title name:

Cicadas, if my knowledge still serves me, only makes noises when they mature, as in shed new skin and grow wings. During such moment, they are supposed to be in their happiest moment, as they are free to roam with their wings.

However, when they mature, that also marks that their life will soon come to an end as well. Ryukishi might metamorphically implement that these cicadas cry by making noises for their inevitable doom sooner or later.

[absinthe]

Note that "moderate violence" refers to "a singular act". So you could have a murder at the start of a mystery, or have someone get shot at the end, but you couldn't have constant bloody gun battles.

I think it's the 'massive blood' and 'self-mutilation' aspects (am I a wimp or what?). I had read the description with "singular" as in "one at a time" and possibly "sequentially" as opposed to "Kill-Bill-style-death-fest". Which makes no sense, now that I think about it.

Well something should be made clear : what's the purpose of this ?

- Prevent children to reach unappropriate content ?
- Prevent random access by anyone to content they might not like ?

(I wonder how often the second one happens ô_o...)

::raise hand, sheepishly:: This happens to me all the time. I'm kinda known as a bit squeamish, and my content-I-don't-like lines are pretty low tolerance compared to everyone else. I really appreciate clear warnings on the box/cover as to what to expect, and I don't like being mislead.

You can't prevent children from reaching inappropriate content. You can provide parents who are paying attention with the tools to help their kids play suitable games, but that's about it.

Warning screens are there to cover us in case of teenager-caught-by-irate-parents (see post above). And to help out in cases of folks with an agenda who want a platform to rant about choosing naughty games as that platform. And while readmes and accompanying information are good ideas, there's no guarantee they'll stay with the program.

Yeah, but it was an extreme example; there's plenty of 18+ titles which don't have such obvious names... Just looking quickly down JList's selection, Critical Point or The Sagara Family could easily be non-sexual titles; even Bible Black, sans-infamy, could be a simple supernatural adventure game just from the title. From what I recall of True Love, it gave no hints that there was adult content in the game until you actually came across it...

Good points! And something else to consider; I bet a lot of people only know of VNs through hentai games. I know I assumed all VNs were probably sex-based when I first encountered them, simply because all of the similar games I'd played up to that point were hentai. A clear rating system would help with that.

Therefore, I shall define my category of R(17+) which fits completely with the current movie rating standard of Restricted... you see nice butts, perky breasts, and people on top of each other... but no genitals.

And this is the issue with any ratings system -- it only works as long as everyone is on the same page, using the same system. Otherwise the lines get blurry and we might as well all be writing a short paragraph describing what we feel are the things to watch out for in the game to put on the back of the box instead of slapping a pre-defined label on it.

My general impression of the MegaTokyo system is that it's designed to make sure kids and parents know what they're getting into, not protect adults who might accidentally walk into a screening of a porn film. Most games designed for grown-ups, with adult (as in 'mature', not 'explicit') storylines, are going to fall into the 18+ category anyway.

I'm thinking it's somewhat like the way books are organized. You have sections 'for "children", "teen", and "young adult", and everything else goes into "general". Those of us who are reading 'general' material use our own discretion, based on genre and experience, to decide if a book is something we want to read (because "suitable" isn't an issue at that point).

If anything, ratings are there to back the makers of said material up if they are charged for certain issue if viewed by unappropriate consumers. It is somewhat irresponsible, but it is like saying "We already warned that it contain gore and intense violence. It is your own fault to chose to view it when you are not capable of taking it."

I don't consider this to be irresponsible at all. If the warning is there and clearly accessible, then the person clicking through needs to take some responsibility. If they aren't old enough or mature enough to take that responsibility, then it's their parents' job to do so, by keeping an eye on them, what they're downloading, and how they're spending their time. I can't do that; I'm not in their house, watching over their kid's shoulder.

The point of a content labeling system and warning screens is so that the user can make an informed decision. If we can decide on a system that everyone is satisfied with (and I think the MegaTokyo one is appropriate), I'll definitely use it.

[monele]

Jake : what I really mean is that sex games... well... you buy them on sex websites... and there's 18+ warning all over them. So you can't really not know what you're getting XD...
Whereas this doesn't happen with violence (oh the irony). You'll never get 18+ warnings before being able to buy very violent games (at least I think ô_o).
I dunno, we talked about the japanese game about school girls going psycho. Maybe that kind of title could "look" like it's something it's really not and never really have any "omg sex!" warning...

My goodness. And if I claim that the main protagonist is actually a 300-year-old witch who transformed herself so she looks like 16?

You've summed up most japanese animes ... j/k... and yes, it's definitely a big problem as sometimes it's clearly just an excuse... and sometimes it does add to some characters and shouldn't be seen as something "bad". But that's big can of worms ^^;...

[mikey]

Whereas this doesn't happen with violence (oh the irony). You'll never get 18+ warnings before being able to buy very violent games (at least I think ô_o)

There is that famous quote that the public in the West is usually "gun-happy and sex-shy", while in Japan, it's "sex-happy and gun-shy". It may explain why so much emphasis is put on sex as a rating criteria (in the West), rather than violence.