The reason you make free VN

[chisa-chan]

(Referred to people who make OELVNs for free).

A friend o' mine asked me like this back then about my project: "why do you make that game by free? Don't you afraid of loss?".

The reasons I made it free:
1. Avoids piracy. Indonesia is 'heaven for piracy acts', if anyone have heard. Besides, what is the usage to pirate a free work ?
2. With making it free, the work I created can should more audience (since it is free)... and saves money
3. I do not need to think about gain and loss for my outgoing. People enjoy and respect my work is a good pay for me

And how about you all?

[EDIT] : Moreover, I create VN because my heart loves it, not because of money

[lordcloudx]

Because of the near-boundless freedom in creating a free vn limited only by your own imagination, your abilities, and the resources you can work with.

The process of creating the VN is by itself fun, though filled with many setbacks and frustrations.

[Inkmote]

I think when things are created for free, they aren't limited by market standards. Sort of like why people enjoy Indie music. =)

Plus, if you're getting paid to create a VN, it feels like a chore ontop of a job. It becomes more about the money, and less about the story you want to tell.

[chisa-chan]

Plus, if you're getting paid to create a VN, it feels like a chore ontop of a job. It becomes more about the money, and less about the story you want to tell.

Agreed with it.

[EDIT]: Removed the link. I do not want to cause troubles because of what I did, gomen.

[monele]

Don't you afraid of loss?

Loss of what ?

Money ?... Well, it's a hobby, so... it's the point.
Time ?... As long as it makes me and others happy, there's no loss.
Rights ?... I don't think making people pay for it prevents them from stealing your stuff.

No, really... I like the free stuff. I don't like to pay for stuff unless it's the very best of everything, and free means that more people will have access to it.

[ClintTheChocolic]

Well, to be fair, piracy is pretty much expected in ANY third world countries. Hell, it's not like it's any better in North America or something (fansub IS a form of piracy, you know.) If you're serious about going commercial, there are ways to make it work. You can sell your game via Paypal or try approaching sites like manifestogames or what have you. If you can't sell it in Indonesia, sell it elsewhere. Ever heard of Burger Rush? It's a commercial casual game made by a game studio in Bandung. It topped the realarcade chart during its debut (not a VN, but hey, I'm just giving an example here.) However, It doesn't look like you're interested in taking this path, so I won't go into details about it. Besides, I'm hardly qualified to talk about getting into the indie gaming biz... it takes guts and courage to sell your creations, and it turns out that I haven't grown a spine all these years.

I think your second reason is why most people release their games/VNs as freeware: to share their creations with other people. Nothing's wrong with that. I'm grateful that stage-nana decided to release Narcissu as afreeware, and I salute Pixel for releasing Doukutsu Monogatory as a freeware. But... I dunno, you make it sound that people who take the commercial path are leeches or something. Wouldn't it be great to be able to make a living doing something you love best? I personally have the most respect for those who decided to go commercial. It's not for the faint of heart, that's for sure.

[mikey]

But... I dunno, you make it sound that people who take the commercial path are leeches or something.

Definitely not - there's nothing bad about it. But it still is a very different approach, with several different philosophies in the background, each with strengths and weaknesses.

So I take this thread as something to make those of us who decided to create free games appreciate the advantages over commercial game-making a bit more, or just to remind us of the positive sides and troubles that we are spared. There are many disadvantages to freeware game making, but I suppose this is not the place for them, so let's just concentrate on the good things:

Principle: I like the idea that someone creates something and then shares it with others, just for that one sake of sharing it. No background thoughts of getting popular and making it big, no competitions, just making games.

Help: I love to help/comment and share idesas for games that will be free, since it's not only the principle, but also the fact that I feel like contributing and helping to create a project that I'll also be able to play, so it doesn't feel like a waste, and in the end if an idea makes it into a game, I'm not thinking I'm paying for my own ideas.

Hassle: I'm not really interested in keeping records of sales and worrying about payment systems and taxes.

Complete freedom: I can create any game I want and then see if it finds and audience. So my creativity isn't held hostage - if I really want something, I will have it in the game, even if the whole world tells me it's wrong.

There are probably more, but this is what came to my mind at the moment.

[DaFool]

Um... trying not to be idealistic here, so forgive me... I hope I have gained more wisdom from more experience...

* Free doesn't give you enough praise to bolster your e-penis points or whatever. (I remember all the instances in trying to distribute and popularize Ren'Py games for a wider audience... there are a few positive comments, but more criticism due to ignorance.) So feeling good and happy because of praise from a wide audience? -- nope, the audience isn't that wide, and the praise isn't that much. Although, the occasional one or two comments of "This is the best game I have played." can be worth a 100 comments. But only a few games get those. Although I haven't released a project which I've directed / written yet, I do feel for every project I collaborated on, so I do feel the overall feedback and this affects my own projects -- I just can't release anything unless the concept and execution is more refined.

If you think about it, having some money in the bank at least compensates you for the effort that praise alone may not be able to fulfill. The big problem is logistics.

* Not everyone in these forums even plays every free game that's been released. How does it feel when you praise peoples' project, but not get any return praise for yours? I know it's cliquish behavior, but humans are all monkeys inside, and we all like to be groomed. That means we have to groom others. You pick the bugs off my fur, I pick the bugs off yours...

* Even working on a free game may feel like a job. I used to try to be helpful on every project, since collaborating on a project increases the likelihood of it to get done. Well, I've been burned a bit, so no more. VN making is supposed to be fun, so I only now work on stuff that I will enjoy or still enjoy. I now have limited patience, so I must work to complete the project before that patience wears thin.

In summary, I realized there really isn't much of a difference between a hobby and a profession. It's that in a hobby, they haven't reached a point where everything starts becoming a chore or taking up too much of their time or money or frantically trying to appeal to the fans. When they've crossed the line, it becomes a profession... so it's natural to want to be compensated for it.

I will always make free visual novels. Especially for my more wacky ideas. But if ever I decide to sell something to recover costs and effort (which does take away from my meager weekend time), then you'll understand.

[mikey]

Well, you've turned a motivating discussion into the "State of the community" standard of being realistic.

Okay, let's do this:

* Not everyone in these forums even plays every free game that's been released. How does it feel when you praise peoples' project, but not get any return praise for yours? I know it's cliquish behavior, but humans are all monkeys inside, and we all like to be groomed. That means we have to groom others. You pick the bugs off my fur, I pick the bugs off yours...

It's not completely illogical IMO that people who create games themselves don't feel the need to play that many. It is a bit ironic, I know, but in many ways it also makes a bit of sense. And forcing yourself to play isn't good, even if you really want to play the people's games, it just seems disrespectful not to wait for the right time and play it just like any other run-off-the-mill production.

* Even working on a free game may feel like a job. I used to try to be helpful on every project, since collaborating on a project increases the likelihood of it to get done. Well, I've been burned a bit, so no more. VN making is supposed to be fun, so I only now work on stuff that I will enjoy or still enjoy. I now have limited patience, so I must work to complete the project before that patience wears thin.

In summary, I realized there really isn't much of a difference between a hobby and a profession. It's that in a hobby, they haven't reached a point where everything starts becoming a chore or taking up too much of their time or money or frantically trying to appeal to the fans. When they've crossed the line, it becomes a profession... so it's natural to want to be compensated for it.

This is true, of course there is the creative side and the work side, and you need to make sure that neither of these prevails - in the first case you end up dreaming and accomplishing nothing, on the other you make it a chore. But that's normal, at least for me.

Of course you say you'll put money into the equation, but that doesn't solve your problem if you're not balancing it right and you slip into an unsatisfying situation (the dream-only, or the chore). The motivations behind the creativity and work will be somewhat altered because there is money involved, but in the end, you can have an unsatisfying situation as easy as in freeware mode.

(I remember all the instances in trying to distribute and popularize Ren'Py games for a wider audience... there are a few positive comments, but more criticism due to ignorance.) So feeling good and happy because of praise from a wide audience? -- nope, the audience isn't that wide, and the praise isn't that much. Although, the occasional one or two comments of "This is the best game I have played." can be worth a 100 comments. But only a few games get those.

I'm taking this "underappreciated" simply as a part of it all. This was for me one of the points of the "State of the community" thread. It doesn't make the disappointment when you make a huge effort and people just say it's boring and don't bother playing it any smaller, but it at least helps you realize why the free OELVNs aren't really popular, and it helps understanding where you and the community are - it's not LESS disappointing, but it probably makes you beter aware of the situation as such.

[Enerccio]

I make free games only for one thing... to see feedback.

[absinthe]

Moreover, I create VN because my heart loves it, not because of money

I like how you put that. That's why I do this too -- because my heart loves it. I like the challenge of programming, and learning new languages. And I like telling stories that other people can lose themselves in for a while. But, mostly, I just love it and it makes me happy.

While writing a VN, you have to wear lots of different hats -- writer, programmer, musical director, artistic director, producer -- and so there's always something for me to switch over to if I get bored with what I'm doing. Otherwise, I could just be writing short stories.

As far as "free" goes, well, I can't say I'm hugely idealistic or anything, but there's something very satisfying about taking a bunch of free resources and using them to create something that everyone can enjoy. Boy, that sounds dumb, but I don't care, I'm a sap and proud of it!

Oh, and I don't think it boils down to "free because I love it" or "commercial and it's drudge work". Writing a game (or any piece of software) is a lot of work, so why shouldn't the developers get paid for it if they want to be? I wouldn't look askance at someone selling homemade jam or baby afghans at my local Farmer's Market. And I do like the idea of making a commercial game "someday", I guess, but I don't think I'd want to go it alone.

* Free doesn't give you enough praise to bolster your e-penis points or whatever.

Awww, and I'm only like ten points away from being able to redeem my e-penis points for prizes, too...

So feeling good and happy because of praise from a wide audience? -- nope, the audience isn't that wide, and the praise isn't that much. Although, the occasional one or two comments of "This is the best game I have played." can be worth a 100 comments.

I have to say, I never realized what a sucker I am for praise before I released my first game. I like to think I'm fairly balanced about such things, but darned if it doesn't just feel really good to hear that other people like what you've created out of your brain.

And I like just about any feedback, from "I suppose this could have sucked more than it did" to "this was the best game ever!" I guess it's just really flattering that someone would take the time to write up their thoughts about something I made and actually hit the submit button -- it means that, for however long it took them to write up that comment, my game meant something to them. And that's an amazing feeling.

But if praise were the only reason I did this, I'd have been done a long time ago. Hearing feedback is definitely like eating a Snickers halfway through a long hike -- you get an energy surge and it keeps you going a little longer -- but it can't keep you going forever if you're not happy with what you're doing.

Not everyone in these forums even plays every free game that's been released. How does it feel when you praise peoples' project, but not get any return praise for yours?

For one thing, if I praise someone's project, I'm not doing it because they can do something for me, or so they'll reciprocate. That would be incredibly dishonest. And, more to the point, it'd be pointless; purchased praise means nothing, and, worse, devalues the honest feedback accompanying it.

I would hate for anyone to feel as if they had to comment on or praise my game just because I commented on their game. Or worse, as if they shouldn't comment because I haven't played their game, or don't post in the same areas of the forum as they do, or whatever.

I've seen attitudes like that on other free-content boards, but I haven't seen anything like that around here, and I'm glad of it.

[Blue Lemma]

I think either I'm too cynical/hard on myself, or people aren't being completely honest. Yes, the feedback, praise, and constructive criticism are great, but wouldn't one be able to get those from a game they sold? Perhaps even more honest feedback would result from paying players given that there is a sense of equity (I give you money, you give me a game and we're all even) no sense of "Aw, it was nice of you to share that with me for free, so I should be nice too." When you read reviews of commercial games, it's clear the sugarcoating is left at the door.

So what are the less obvious (but also very important) reasons we make free games? Here are my thoughts:

1. Lower Standards - Let's face it, when you release a game for free, the bar is set lower than if it were pay-to-play. No one will complain "that sucked, give me my five bucks back!" Rather, the position can always be taken in the player's (and perhaps author's) mind that you get what you pay for. This defuses some of the harsh/mean criticism that we all hate to get. Really, it can hurt, and everyone knows that. It's natural to want to avoid the possible rejection of your hard work and ideas.

2. Logistical Issues - Mikey touched on this one. Requiring payment for a game is tougher to implement than just allowing free downloads. You have to set up a payment system, worry about customers, etc. You also have to worry more about piracy.

3. Legal Issues - Once you start charging for your game, you lose any legs you might have been standing on as far as copyright infringement. If you make a fangame or use a speck of content from someone else, it seems to be generally seen as okay since it's not for profit. However, once you try to make money off it, you have some explaining to do. Commercial means you have to be especially vigilant about dotting your i's and crossing your t's.

4. Inertia - When you created your first game, you probably didn't have the intention of selling it. You were practicing game-making/writing/etc. By the time you've gotten to the point where you feel comfortable sharing your work with the public, it's possible you don't sell it just because you're used to making games without selling them. It's what you've been doing all along.

5. Empathy - This is especially true for me. Until I was around 18, I never had much money to buy games. Something I wanted to do when I learned programming was make games that people who also didn't have much money would be able to play I also didn't like the whole dilemma of choosing between pirating or paying (or not having enough money to pay so not playing at all!) Anyone who wanted to play a game I made and released for free wouldn't have to worry about this moral issue or feel bad that someone breaking the law got to play and he/she didn't.

6. Community Spirit - In the original english VN community, it seems just about everyone releases free games. Therefore, there is a sort of acceptance and sense of community from doing the same. Also, people play others' free games and might feel the desire to return the favor by making their own available for free.

7. No Pressing Need for Money - It takes time, after all. If we really needed money that urgently, we'd be doing something more economically fruitful. I'm guessing we're all working or otherwise provided for. (I think this is a big reason why open source software can happen, too. Donating work doesn't pay the bills.) If we didn't have something else to support us, it'd be impractical to put all this time and effort into free games.


Some of those reasons might seem a bit harsh (especially number 1) but I think those various reasons are true for various people. I agree with a lot of the other reasons everyone else listed too, though.

[Fawkes - Feathered Melody]

The practical reason is that the costs, both real and time used up, of trying to make it a marketable product far outweigh any potential profit. I wouldn't even know where to begin selling or even if there are people who would be willing to buy it.

The less tangible reason is frankly, I'd like to get it out to as many people as I can, and if I can get people to think, "Hey that was cool and thought provoking," I would consider it a success.

[chisa-chan]

But... I dunno, you make it sound that people who take the commercial path are leeches or something. Wouldn't it be great to be able to make a living doing something you love best? I personally have the most respect for those who decided to go commercial. It's not for the faint of heart, that's for sure.

Gomen, I do not point to that (pulls some of the statements above). I basically respect those who take commercial path (we have our own choices, right?).

Right, I will pull out to the conclusion: I don't care whether the game is free or not (even I once had single thought to make commercial game), but as long as the heart is at the game (not the money), I respect it.

Forgive me if some of my words are harsh. I've edited my previous posts to minimize it.

[absinthe]

I agree with what you're saying, Blue Lemma -- those are all fairly valid and reasonable reasons for why *not* to make a commercial game, and I've certainly thought about 'em (mostly reasons #2, #3 and a little #4) when considering making a commercial game.

But why make a free game? It's for the joy of creating, and sharing with the community, and feeling like you've accomplished something with your time, and definitely for that nice warm glow you get when someone reads something you've written and says, "Hey, I really liked that!" or "When can I see some more?".

Fear of failing at a commercial game might be part of why someone keeps on making the games they've created available for free, but it can't be the primary reason why they'd make free games in the first place. (Or am I splitting hairs here? I just got back from a very disappointing movie and I feel like arguing passionately for or against something. Eh, ignore me if so.)

I will quibble with #1, though, just a bit. I always hold myself to high standards, no matter what I'm creating. Yes, sometimes the free resources available aren't the best, and sometimes you have to make do with what you can afford, but I'd consider it disrespectful to the people I want to play my games to lower the bar on the aspects of my work that I can control.

Not to mention that it's a lot less mortifying a decade later, when your novice and relatively inexperienced work resurfaces from the depths of the internet (lesson #1, put nothing on the internet now that you don't want on the internet forever), if you can honestly say you did your best on it at the time.

Forgive me if some of my words are harsh. I've edited my previous posts to minimize it.

The problem with editing and removing text from posts is that now and forever, anyone who reads this thread will be wondering what you said and imagining it as far harsher than what you originally posted.

(Which wasn't particularly harsh, by the way. Or at least I didn't find it to be so.)