Lemma Soft Forums

lol the same kids calling for the heads of JRPG and VN developers are playing the newest Final Fantasy and PWI. Just ignore them, remember by being American you have already pissed off 2 billion people just for existing. Don't let it get to you.

dramspringfeald wrote: Just ignore them, remember by being American you have already pissed off 2 billion people just for existing. Don't let it get to you.

Most of them being feminists!

(I'llgonowbye)

That's low hanging fruit and you know it.

LateWhiteRabbit wrote: I would imagine it is those developers whose VNs contain homosexual content, or loli subject matter. Some people just tend to lose their ever-loving minds over that stuff.

Hm, this might get interesting...

LateWhiteRabbit wrote: Papillon's article on Kotaku had some rather nasty comments on "perverted old men" and "creepy freaks" JUST because her game has a young looking anime character. Nevermind that no sexual content or revealing outfits were shown.

Ahh, it's so cute when people project the dark workings of their own minds onto others. Granted, the knee-jerk moral panic can be pretty annoying at times, but at others it is rather amusing...

dramspringfeald wrote:Just ignore them, remember by being American you have already pissed off 2 billion people just for existing. Don't let it get to you.

Never thought about it that way, but good point.

I still wish whoever it was that complained about Magical Diary being "liberal propaganda" had gone to the effort of explaining exactly which bit of the game was causing that reaction.

Judging by which line tends to set people off in Let's Plays, it's probably the one bit that actually wasn't intentionally political.

papillon wrote:I still wish whoever it was that complained about Magical Diary being "liberal propaganda" had gone to the effort of explaining exactly which bit of the game was causing that reaction.

Judging by which line tends to set people off in Let's Plays, it's probably the one bit that actually wasn't intentionally political.

yeah sadly it's not hard for this to happen seeing as a large number of Indie Devs have an agenda and push out games that usually have very slanted views that some might not enjoy.

Isn't that one of the best parts about being indie? We have more freedom to say what we want, within reason.

dramspringfeald wrote:

papillon wrote:I still wish whoever it was that complained about Magical Diary being "liberal propaganda" had gone to the effort of explaining exactly which bit of the game was causing that reaction.

Judging by which line tends to set people off in Let's Plays, it's probably the one bit that actually wasn't intentionally political.

yeah sadly it's not hard for this to happen seeing as a large number of Indie Devs have an agenda and push out games that usually have very slanted views that some might not enjoy.

You are completely missing the point.

Of course my games have an angle. Everything has an angle. Even if you as a writer are not intending to send signals and just writing "what's normal", you have an angle represented in what you think normal is. That's not an indie thing. It's a communication thing.

There's nothing you can write that everyone will enjoy, and it's quite possible to write something that you thought had no agenda at all which is interpreted as grossly offensive by some readers. The more in line you are with the author's viewpoint, the less likely you are to notice any leanings, but that doesn't mean they're not there.

There are all sorts of messages in that game that are completely intentional and some that aren't intentional at all - I just wish I knew which bit ticked off that one complainer, and whether it was something I did on purpose or not.

papillon wrote:I still wish whoever it was that complained about Magical Diary being "liberal propaganda" had gone to the effort of explaining exactly which bit of the game was causing that reaction.

Judging by which line tends to set people off in Let's Plays, it's probably the one bit that actually wasn't intentionally political.

Well, I loved Magical Diary...and I'm a liberal propagandist (well...actually I'm a college professor...but some people see that as the same thing)...I have a pretty good idea about what a person who uses the phrase "liberal propaganda" seriously would have found upsetting in the VN:
1) There is discussion about homosexuality being okay, which is thought of as liberal propaganda.
2) There is some discussion about nature that could be read as being environmentally conscious...which is read as liberal propaganda.

Yeah, basically, anything that Professor Potsdam has to say would probably upset the more vigorous right wingers.

I think it is great, and one of the reasons I liked the VN so much...well that and the romance with Demian...because it does a great job of showing that what we are often told are signs of "romance" in so many different media are actually red flags for abusive people.

As for the tirades against JRPG or indie VN gamedevs...
I have heard tirades against JRPGs (though no death or rape threats)...but this is usually in the context of message boards for mainstream console games...and in those threads both sides are equally represented and both sides are equally reductive. It is all:
WRPG Fan: JRPGs are all linear and therefore boring!
JRPG Fan: WRPGs have no depth of story and are therefore boring!

I just sort of ignore those debates entirely.

As for attacks on indie VN gamedevs. My relationship to VN comes from some articles on rock, paper, shotgun in the context of art games...or from border house in the context of games that are progressive and then lemmasoft. I haven't seen much attacking of VNs at all in the places I've come from. But I suppose I don't hang out in those corners of the internet.

On the other hand, I have seen a lot of death and rape threats made against *female* gamedevs regardless of genre. The misogyny is sickening and astounding. So, when I read some attacks on Christine Love's Analogue it was because she is a woman, not because Analogue is a VN. I have also seen ire thrown and games that seem feminist or female freindly even if the devs were male.

Doing some searching I see that some people when explaining VNs to Western audiences frame them as Japanese choose your own adventure romance novels for women. Considering it is very popular in the to denigrate and dismiss genres of art associated with female audiences, the attacks on VNs could be just an extension of the general misogyny in our society.

And just in case it has to be said: I in no way endorse misogyny or death or rape threats. Those things are vile and have no place in civil discourse. In my opinion.

Got 'em death threats from angry fans when I published a... less-than-decent sim date regarding their favourite show.

I only laughed. Laughed long and hard. Some people were so pissed off that the whole game was basically raunchy yuri involving their favorite characters.