Range of emotions?

[JohnColburn]

So I'm making a game with VN/JRPG style dialogue, but I have way more practice drawing graphic novel style pages. I'm used to being able to draw any expression I want for every panel and tailoring that expression to the situation.

Obviously this is not how VNs operate.

Some games get away with only two or three illustrations per character; I've seen others with enough variations that I can't easily count them. I'd hesitate to say that either is fundamentally "better" but I'm still trying to decide where my game should fall on the spectrum.

So I'm here to ask some more experienced VN players/creators: In your experience, how many "emotion" variants should there be for each main character in a game with high drama/emotion content? Assume this game has an artist who can pull off most emotions, even fairly subtle ones.

As much as possible, I'd like to hear the reasons for any number you come up with. What are the specific advantages you see with your number, and what problems do you predict going lower or higher?

Thanks in advance for your advice; I look forward to reading it ^^.

[piano]

I am also interested in hearing what people say. I'm a webcomic artist working on my first VN now, and currently my MC sprite has 22 different expressions. Yes, it's overkill, but I feel as the main character, she should have a wider variety of emotions than the standard "six emotions" block (anger, disgust, fear, happiness, sadness and surprise). It excludes a ton of other feelings (confusion, smugness, seduction, exhaustion, boredom, shyness, peaceful, etc) and limits the amount of expressions. For example, anger can be broken down to being anything from annoyed to enraged, happiness can be anything from hopeful to ecstatic, and sadness can be disappointment to devastated.

So yeah! I'd like to know what the consensus is too!

[KomiTsuku]

That's not an easy question to answer because it really isn't dependent on what a set standard is, but who the character is. For someone who is very stoic, I'm not going to need more than a handful of emotions. If I'm working with a very bubbly, very emotional character, I'll want a larger basket of emotions to work with. Another thing to consider is the pose of the character. How a character stands and moves can show emotion much clearer than simply changing the eyebrows and mouth.

How many emotions do you need? The short answer is however many emotions that character is going to need to properly convey themselves.

[gekiganwing]

Welcome to the forum!

...I have way more practice drawing graphic novel style pages. I'm used to being able to draw any expression I want for every panel and tailoring that expression to the situation.

Sprites and backgrounds can be a useful shortcut if you want to tell a long story, or one with many endings or choices. They're been used in visual novels for deacdes (perhaps as far back as 1983's The Portopia Serial Murder Case). If you want to draw varied sprites to show expressions and emotions, that's a design choice.

If you're willing, consider creating a sort of interactive comic, in which every line of dialogue/narration is the equivalent of one panel. Just like creating a comic, this would be a lot of work. And it would probably be best-suited for a short story with only a few branches and endings. Consider using an intentionally minimalistic art style, kind of like Tell Her a Story.

The company Littlewitch created a few VNs with a comic-style presentation. One of them, Quartett!, has a full English fan translation. Keep in mind that it's a love polygon story that includes some explicit sex scenes.

[JohnColburn]

Re: KomiTsuku: Not easy to answer:

A fair point, so I'll clarify: I'm not really looking for a concrete number or list of emotions to use like a checklist for each character. It's definitely true that some characters may have more illustrations than others, but assuming a wide variety of personalities there will still be an average number with all characters falling within a percentage range above or below; that's all I'm really looking for.

Re: gekiganwing: Comic-style presentation:

Some interesting examples, though I've already settled on the more "traditional" VN style. Part of why I'm moving away from comics is so that I can tell a larger story with more characters, dialogue, etc without all the overhead of drawing everything from scratch on every new page. I'm pretty much a one man team so I'm definitely going for the "useful shortcut" aspects of this medium.

[chocojax]

I figured that it would depend on what emotions they would show in story, rather than making a lot and having a few unused ones. (Of course, since I draw before writing drafts, I tend to do whatever, haha.)

As above, just predict what kinda expressions they'd have at the major points of your story.

Uh, for main characters, maybe 1-3 of every "major" feeling you can think of? The only disadvantage of going lower is having to make more, and for going higher, having unused ones?

[trooper6]

I'm still coding up my script...but while I do so, I make note of all the illustrations/emotions/poses I envision happening in my mind. This way I have a complete list of needed assets before the drawing process begins.

Right now the list is getting long...and a bit complicated.

So, in the end will I have a lot of emotions or a smaller amount? That will really depend if I think my art is good enough or if I have to commission someone to do the art. If I am drawing it myself? Then I will go hog wild and have all the emotions I imagine, and the costume variations ("with jacket! without jacket!"), and maybe even a hybrid CG sprite thing I have in my mind. If I have to commission someone? Well now...all of a sudden things get a bit different. I can't afford to spend $500 in art commissions for a short freeware game, you know? In that case, then I'll have to scale back the emotions and other bells and whistles quite a bit.

I've seen some VN with very, very few emotions. I've seen some with lots and lots and lots of emotions and even with regular animations. I don't think it is useful to ask other people how many emotions you "should" have in a game. You should ask yourself instead: a) How many emotions do I imagine this VN having? How many would fulfill my artistic vision? and b) How many can I afford to commission if I'm not doing the art myself?

[ShippoK]

Currently my MC sprite has 22 different expressions. Yes, it's overkill.

(Looks over towards the 100+ expression I have for my MC...).
(Me thinks I'm doing it wrong).

I love it when VN's show tons of expression into there CG and Character Images. Even if it's only shown once or twice I love seeing a new expression pop up on the VN. It get's quite dull seeing the same face over and over again.

Though, I understand the limitations on why people don't do this, it's indeed a lot of work.
Especially if they overboard it with a lot of poses.

I do agree on limiting the expression for Stoic/Emotionless character though.
Stoic Characters are a fieldtrip to make in any Media.

[Greeny]

I think that having a good range of expressions is infinitely more important than having different poses, at least if you're going for realistic.
I've been working on this with the artist for one of my projects; one of the things I think is far too often neglected is the eyes. Sure, the range of emotions are often there, but the eyes will always look directly at the player. A short, sideways glance can often say more than 10 lines of dialogue.

[Auro-Cyanide]

Well, when I'm doing expressions for sprites, I do all the eyebrows, eyes and mouths on different layers so they can be used in multiple combinations, so the 'potential' range starts getting near 100 even though only a selection will actually be used.

I've also moved on to having multiple poses to enhance the feeling of emotion, in which case the selection for each pose is likely to be smaller. I'll tailor the emotions I draw for each pose, meaning the more expressive poses get fewer, and the more neutral ones get more given they are more flexible in how they are read together.

For you, just do what a) You need for the story and b) what you can manage to draw. Always try to balance ambition with a very firm grasp on reality. As with everything, it will always end up being more work than you think it will be, so make sure that you do not judge your entire cast by one sprite and instead try to look at the whole picture when making judgement on how much to do.

[nyaatrap]

As I'm saying several times, scripting expressions takes longer time than drawing them usually.
Thus just thinking quantity of expression is bad. Think quality of organization.

I made an expression chart for an artist of a game I'm currently making:

Clipboard 1.png (7.8 KiB) Viewed 6628 times

I don't explain much about it, but you might get an idea from it. Main purpose of this chart is speeding up scripting, but It'll also help artists to think what expression is needed.

BTW, I use around 3 for minor characters, around 30 for major characters (for commercial adult games)

[Gear]

This is a difficult question to answer objectively. What I can tell you, however, is that my game is also very emotive and in-depth in terms of characters. As a result, one of my characters has 30 sprites (so far) and the other four main characters aren't far behind him in number. My sprites also aren't face transplants. Their arms, stance, etc. change based on what emotion the character is supposed to portray at that time. This is only possible, of course, because I do the sprites myself, as I don't think many people are as insane as I am when it comes to these types of things. However, this creates a lot of flexibility for me in my story, and it helps the characters look very dynamic, and it works for the story I tell. Of course, some of the sprites aren't emotionally-based; some are based on injuries, etc.

So it's definitely doable, but it really depends on what your story dictates. I'm not saying to go for 30 sprites per character unless you feel 30 is required. But even in my own example, some characters who are less emotive require less.

[Greeny]

As I'm saying several times, scripting expressions takes longer time than drawing them usually.
Thus just thinking quantity of expression is bad. Think quality of organization.

I made an expression chart for an artist of a game I'm currently making:

Clipboard 1.png

I don't explain much about it, but you might get an idea from it. Main purpose of this chart is speeding up scripting, but It'll also help artists to think what expression is needed.

BTW, I use around 3 for minor characters, around 30 for major characters (for commercial adult games)

I don't like how sexually aroused is in the "sad" category.

[nyaatrap]

Search images with "トロ顔". There's no English represents this Japanese term.
To explain it more, Those expressions were categorized by the placement of eyebrows first, then added emotions later.

[Donmai]

Search images with "トロ顔".

I did. Wow! Now it makes perfect sense.