Using songs in VNs?

[RMVNTeam]

Alright I'm new to making VN's on my own but I'd like to ask, are we totally not allowed to use music by famous artists in our projects?

Sorry if it's a dumb question x'D
I just have some really good songs that I can use as character themes but not all of them are created by me. So I was just wondering

[Ryue]

That is a question of copyright again. Thus it depends on the rules of the country you live in (each contry has its own rules), but generally using the songs of a living composer without allowance CAN result in troubles (more so if it is a commercial VN)

[trooper6]

If you want to use songs that you did not write and that is not in the public domain (generally, if it is from after 1923 it is not in the public domain) you need to find out who has the copyright (often a corporation and not the artist) and then you need to write them and ask for permission to use the song for your VN. Generally, you need to let them know if your project is commercial or non-commercial, what the project is about and what you'll be using the song for and how and how much of it. And then they will tell you if they give you permission to use the song. They may not give you permission if they don't like your project and think it might damage their brand association, or if they gave permission to EA and EA paid extra money so that other games can't use it, or whatever. If they give you permission, they will want you to pay them money. They will tell you how many thousands of dollars they want you to pay them to use the song. Even as an academic who writes popular music for academic purposes and not for profit I have to get permission if anything I do goes beyond fair use. And they want money. We pop musicologists don't normally have to pay a huge amount of money...thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands of dollars...because we are writing books that few people are going to read. But if you want something for a game? Especially a commercial game? Especially if the music is more contemporary and successful on music charts? Yeah, they are going to want a lot of money.

That said. You can always use the music as placeholder stuff for a private version for yourself that you don't let anyone else see. For example, for my "A Close Shave" I have a recording of Danse Macabre as the opener of the game just as a place holder...but I'll have to get rid of that before I release it to other people.

Last note, even if the sheet music of something is in the public domain, for example, this piece of banjo music from the 1890s that I'm also using for A Close Shave, the recording probably isn't. Black Tie Banjo recorded that old song a couple years ago and that is the recording I'm using as a placeholder. And that recording is certainly under copyright. So if I really wanted to use that song, I'd have to re-record it myself.

Hope that helps!

[RMVNTeam]

What if the songs are classical piano pieces?
Is that also under the copyright term?

[ThisIsNoName]

What if the songs are classical piano pieces?
Is that also under the copyright term?

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer.

One of the confusing thing about music is the fact that there are two types of copyrights that apply to it: the copyright for the actual song, which goes to the writer, and the copyright for the performance, which goes to the performers (duh).

A lot of classical songs will be in public domain, but that only applies to the actual composition, not the performance. I'm sure someone else can explain it much better than I can, but the short version is that you can use it if you record your own version, but you can't use someone else's version.

However, it's probably worth checking the internet for either a performance that's under creative commons, or one that's royalty free.

[trooper6]

What if the songs are classical piano pieces?
Is that also under the copyright term?

It depends on the classical piece. While technically, "classical" music refers to art music of the classical period which lasts from approximately 1730 to 1820, people generally use the term "classical music" to refer to any art music regardless of the year it was composed. So if you are talking about classical music that was made after 1923, it is most certainly still in copyright, and you can not use it without permission. For example, Holst's Planets and Orff's Carmina Burana are all under copyright. If it was composed before 1923, the score might still be out of copyright, though if it was republished later it might still be under copyright.

But regardless of when the score was written, *recordings* of the classical music are most certainly under copyright (unless you are using recording from before 1923, and even then you'd still have to double check). So if you want to use some Beethoven piano sonatas in your game, you'll have to perform and record it anew yourself...or hire someone to play it for you, program the score using midi into a program like Logic.

You can go to the govenment's copyright office website and do a search to see if there is a current copyright for what you are interested. You can also check archive.org...because I think a lot of the things they have there are public domain...but you'd want to be careful about that. I'm pretty sure everything in Project Gutenberg is public domain.

The point is, you need to be careful if you are using something you didn't write yourself or commission.

[Carassaurat]

You can find some classical pieces released under a Creative Commons license on Musopen or Wikimedia Commons (including a good deal of Beethoven's piano sonatas.)

[fleet]

There are also some royalty free classical music files at incomtech. You must give credit if you use them.
Here's the link.
http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-fr ... =Classical

[Escaflowne]

How about Vocaloid's song?Everyone know that the creator of their song is basically use a producer name that useually not their true name,making us to get confuse to get a permittance of using their song.?

[trooper6]

How about Vocaloid's song?Everyone know that the creator of their song is basically use a producer name that useually not their true name,making us to get confuse to get a permittance of using their song.?

The vocaloid software is just software and if you own it you can make your own original song with it.
If you want to use a song make my someone else, it doesn't matter if they used vocaloid or not or if they use a producer name or not. The song will be registered with a copyright collection society, a copyright office, and/or a music licensing firm. They are the people you'd need to contact, not the artist (artists often don't own the copyright or the licensing rights to their own music--the Beatles don't own their own music, for example...and when they tried to buy it from their record label the record label said no and sold it to someone else instead, Michael Jackson, I believe).

If you are looking to license AVTechNo's song "Dye," for example, I'd first go to the JASRAC website (Japanese Society for Rights of Authors, Composers and Publishers). If you are in the US I'd look to the US copyright office, ASCAP, and/or BMI, Germany has GEMA...wait...here you go...

Wikipedia has a list of copyright collection societies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _societies
Look up the song you want to license using one of the societies in the country of original publication and the country you come from, hopefully you will find the information there. If you are having a hard time finding the agency a song is licensed with, I'd talk to a reference librarian at a really good library, they may be able to help you.

[Escaflowne]

Does that means we able to use their song(s) on our VN?Sorry I was soo confused about this too >_<

[trooper6]

No. You cannot use any music you did not make yourself in your VN unless you have permission (which you usually get by paying money and signing a contract).
The only exception is if the music, and the recording, are both in the public domain or are creative commons.

Remember, I am not a laywer, but here is a flowchart:

1: Did you write the song yourself?
-If yes, go to 10. If no, go to 2.
2. Did you hire someone to write the song for you? And you have a contract where they sign over rights to you as a work for hire?
-If yes, go to 10. If no, go to 3.
3. Is the song in the public domain (usually older than 1923, but check copyright laws for your country and the country the song was written in)?
-If yes, go to to 5, If no goto 4.
4. You need to get permission from the rights holder to use the music of the song in your VN. If the music is under a "creative commons" license, you may already have permission. But you have to check.
-If you get permission, Go to 5. If you don't get permission, go to 11.
5. According to pdinfo.com, there are no recordings at all that are in the public domain, so if you want to use a specific recording, you need to get permission from the rights holder to use the specific recording of the song in your VN. If the recording is under a "creative commons" license, you may already have permission. If you get permission, go to 10. If you don't get permission, go to 11.

10. You can use the song in your VN!
11. You cannot legally use the song in your VN.

[PyTom]

While you're basically right, that pdinfo site seems suspect - made by someone who's trying to sell royalty-free music.

There are recordings in the public domain in the US. Here's a recording from 1888, which is certainly PD by now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D0SXIANTLM . (There are likely other recordings that have had their copyrights expire.) There are musical works created without copyright - for example, things released by US governmental bands, since the US government can't create copyrights. Similarly, there is music recorded and released under the public domain - it's rare, but it happens.

The musopen project is a good source for public-domain music:

https://musopen.org/

[trooper6]

While you're basically right, that pdinfo site seems suspect - made by someone who's trying to sell royalty-free music.

There are recordings in the public domain in the US. Here's a recording from 1888, which is certainly PD by now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D0SXIANTLM . (There are likely other recordings that have had their copyrights expire.) There are musical works created without copyright - for example, things released by US governmental bands, since the US government can't create copyrights. Similarly, there is music recorded and released under the public domain - it's rare, but it happens.

The musopen project is a good source for public-domain music:

https://musopen.org/

Yeah, before running into that site I was pretty certain there were definitely early pre-1923 recordings that were in the public domain...I am certainly hoping so! Because I want to do a remix of a 1920 recording of "St. Louis Blues" for "A Close Shave"...and archive.org seems to think the particular recording is public domain--I know the song itself is.

But definitely a person can't just pick up some pop song by Beyonce they like released last year and use it in their VN and think they are not going to get into hot water. Because they will. And actually, ever since the DMRA...the penalties for infringement can be harsh...it is part of what really killed the 1980s hip-hop sampling culture.

[PyTom]

Yeah. I'm hoping that the rewrite of copyright law that congress is currently working on will address things like this. There's reason to be hopeful - in 1978, when the last major update to copyright law occurred, the only way to get access to media was through the copyright interests.

This times, the technology sector - hopefully including a lot of fair-use and public domain advocates - will have a seat at the table.

(And yes, I'm somewhat US-biased here - but that's because I am in the US. Your country's laws may vary. I am not a lawyer, this is not intended as legal advice. Do not taunt the happy fun ball.)