Lets Talk About First Person Dungeon Crawling!

[Ekamu]

I want to add game-play to my VN, I guess in the end it will morph more into an RPG because I have a lot more experience with designing RPG games and I think pure VN's are not really my niche (I like exploration and choice in games but I am very direct with words/writing).

Lets talk about First-Person Dungeon Crawling
like in Dungeon Magic: Sword of the Elements for the NES


Or any other first person dungeon crawler or point-click adventure game you like (Myst)


I think its nice to have exploration in games, it helps balance out the story and game play and you feel much more immersed than if you where to just play a completely linear game. Even the whole idea of having multiple choices in a VN in my opinion is exploration because you get an opportunity to choose where you want the direction of something to flow even if its just a string of text that you would have otherwise missed.

Role Playing games, Life Simulators and Visual Novels are different genres completely but all three can be merged together with a simple idea like exploration.

For example Role Playing games are all about stat building and character development in one way or the other, Visual Novels can easily incorporate some RPG elements into their design because VN's seem to be mainly about building/developing character relationships within a story, life sims are like RPG's but without the combat, its still about stat building in a way and character relationships but the game-world is usually a lot less hostile and more trivial like in some suburban town while an RPG like Persona will also be set in a suburban town but filled with zombies and with a combat system.


First Person Dungeon Simulators unlike third person really get confusing which is a good thing and a bad thing but one thing is certain, you have a feeling of immersion through exploration. You actually get hopelessly lost a lot of times even just doing simple things like finding the castle to talk to the king in Dungeon Magic: Sword of the Elements, only to go north, entering the castle to find another dungeon like environment...

I personally think first person dungeons are terrifying because of this. To prove this, 3D monster maze is one of the most frightening games I've played (along with Silent Hill 2), not because of any creepy music/sound effects, or hoards of zombies or anything but these three simple formulas:

> You are being chased
> You don't know where the t-rex/monster is
> You have to navigate a maze like environment (in first person so your sight is limited)

What are you're opinions of first person dungeons in games like Persona, Dungeon Magic, Digital a Devil Story e.t.c

On encountering monsters would you like to have a full combat system with player statistics and an inventory or just leave it up to a dice throw.

What's creepier for you?

Lets debate \(^m^)/

[gekiganwing]

First, I have to admit that I'm not skilled at navigating 3D video game worlds. Whether it's the old frame by frame 3D dungeons, or modern games with smooth movement and rotation, I have embarrassing tendencies to go in circles and get lost.

The notion of a 3D computer game world has been around since at least Akalabeth in 1979. It's also existed in the Megami Tensei franchise since its beginning in 1987. (I'm glad to see that you remember Persona 1, since it's nearly been buried under the popularity of the third and fourth games.)

Back in 2005, a person named Grey made the Flash game Heikou. It's a visual novel inspired by the Satellaview game Radical Dreamers, and it includes a 3D maze sequence.

I think its nice to have exploration in games, it helps balance out the story and game play and you feel much more immersed than if you where to just play a completely linear game. Even the whole idea of having multiple choices in a VN in my opinion is exploration because you get an opportunity to choose where you want the direction of something to flow even if its just a string of text that you would have otherwise missed.

Makes sense. Giving the player a choice through text is one thing. Giving the player the ability to act out the decision -- move the character in the right direction or perform an action -- is another thing. Just make sure the gameplay doesn't become frustrating through obtuse puzzles, frequent/challenging combat, or other design choices.

If you ask me, minimalism can be very useful. Let the player use their imagination. Sometimes it's better to use wire frames than to show detailed graphics of the world.

[LVUER]

The notion of a 3D computer game world has been around since at least Akalabeth in 1979. It's also existed in the Megami Tensei franchise since its beginning in 1987. (I'm glad to see that you remember Persona 1, since it's nearly been buried under the popularity of the third and fourth games.)

Also Phantasy Star in 1987.

[Ekamu]

I was thinking of not including any player statistics apart from HP. You then "attack" enemies with selecting from an Item in your inventory but you have no magic or equipment, its all just about item management with a limited-space inventory and some random encounters. Items can attack, fill up your HP, perform specialized attacks based on a random chance/invisible variable e.t.c then later I can use this same idea with player-stats and create a more 'fleshed-out' battle system but still based on management of various specialized inventories. I got this idea from Survival Horror themes. I see that visual novel readers are not really into "heavy gameplay" which makes sense because you would want to read/play a visual novel more for the characters and story so gameplay should be kept at bay/ as a side thing.

Wire framed game worlds will be much easier at least untill I get get the coding done like in Akalabeth.

or Wizadry (NES)


I think the perspective is 45 degrees from the edges to the vanishing point at the center of the screen. They you have 3 levels to show depth, the first level is where the player will next step, the second level is just ahead of that and then the third level is a vanishing background or vague-wall. Not too sure though

Also I don't think you need any linear algebra for this, maybe just some basic geometry for placing positional co-ordinates onto a representing map or something. again not too sure though.

What about point-click games like Myst, would you say there pseudo-3D also?

[LVUER]

I was thinking of not including any player statistics apart from HP. You then "attack" enemies with selecting from an Item in your inventory but you have no magic or equipment, its all just about item management with a limited-space inventory and some random encounters. Items can attack, fill up your HP, perform specialized attacks based on a random chance/invisible variable e.t.c then later I can use this same idea with player-stats and create a more 'fleshed-out' battle system but still based on management of various specialized inventories.

You may want to see/play "Riviera: The Promised Land" (GBA/PSP).

[やまと]

Dungeon Hack:


Dungeon Master:


Eye of the Beholder:


Wizardry:


Lands of Lore:


Anvil of Down:


Abandoned Places:



And their squels.
Among many others ^_^


They are my favorite games, if you ask me.

[Ekamu]

Thanks I have a lot of games to check out/read about. Any downloadable ones?

I got Riviera: The Promised Land GBA via ... other means (<_<)

[やまと]

Thanks I have a lot of games to check out/read about. Any downloadable ones?

I got Riviera: The Promised Land GBA via ... other means (<_<)

I think that all games I listed in my previous message can be downloaded for free from abandonware sites.
You maybe need to search a little bit more the Eye of the Beholder and Lands of Lore games, but they should be easy to find anyway.
You will need a MsDoS emulator to play them, such as DoSBox. Well, since you are computer programmer, I'm sure you know how to run them.

[Ekamu]

Yeah I use emulators all the time so I'll figure it out, thanks. Any specific favorite that you recommend to start with? Or are they all you'r favourites?

[やまと]

Yeah I use emulators all the time so I'll figure it out, thanks. Any specific favorite that you recommend to start with? Or are they all you'r favourites?

My favourite in the list is Dungeon Hack. But overall, I like them all.