Phil Fish, some Other stuff and the Videogame Industry

[Ekamu]

I posted an image URL that is way too long in the first thread so it became impossible to edit my post. sorry about the initial post not being clear and having to make another thread. Just ignore the first one if you can still see it in your browser, I deleted it otherwise so it should be gone (I think).

Basically the thread is about:

Phil Fish, some Other stuff and the Videogame Industry
>Indie developers (like Phil Fish) who are 'full of themselves', and think Japanese games "just suck".!
>New video-game characters with hotter girls and better graphics, It seems character design in fighting games these days just means BIGGER BOOBS.

>The new Oculus Rift Virtual reality headset... with the first virtual porn game coming out

[Greeny]

Is Phil Fish not allowed to have an opinion? I am a VN dev. I think Japanese VN's are a bit stale. Does that make me vain?

[TrickWithAKnife]

I think you are searching for drama where it doesn't exist.

Japanese gamers tend to prefer different styles of games to Western gamers. This doesn't make either better or worse, just that the developers were smart enough to design to their target audiences.

As for vanity, perhaps you have a different understanding of what that word means, because I really can't see the connection you are trying to make. One person does not equate to the whole indie community.

As for your question regarding that one single developer, I don't really care. He's entitled to his opinions, the same as anyone else.

[MaiMai]

> Kotaku

there's your problem right there

[SundownKid]

I think that people these days have to be "full of themselves" to garner enough popularity, otherwise they will simply languish unknown like most indie devs. It favors the people who are the most outspoken and controversial. If he just sat around and quietly made Fez for 5 years, he wouldn't be quite as well known. That doesn't mean I condone his actions.

About bigger boobs... I don't feel like character design is taking that trend. In fact, it's the opposite direction with more realistic female characters - in the west, at least, maybe not Japan.

And finally for the last one, why wouldn't they? It's guaranteed to make money if it works!

> Kotaku

there's your problem right there

Yep, they often blow issues way out of proportion to get controversial articles.

[trooper6]

You are lumping three things under the category of vanity:

1. Phil Fish being arrogant.
2. An emphasis on graphics and big boobs
3. Virtual porn game.

Um...These are not all examples of vanity.

Maybe #1. But 2 and 3? Those are examples of other things unrelated to vanity. Objectification? Yeah. Vanity? Not so much.

[Ekamu]

There not examples of vanity at all, I also think Phil is entitled to his opinion that's why I linked to that specific article (if you read it at all).

I think that people these days have to be "full of themselves" to garner enough popularity, otherwise they will simply languish unknown like most indie devs.

exactly

[ShippoK]

Pst! I think there is a certain 'image board' who would gladly talk about this more then the people here.
They hate that fish guy very much.

[trooper6]

If you don't think they are examples of vanity, then why is this thread framed by the concept of vanity? I don't quite understand the point of the thread. It is hard to engage when the terms are so...vague.

[Ekamu]

changed the title, removed my opinionated questions, I think its simple to understand now...

[trooper6]

The thread is still a little...random. But.

1) Phil Fish. He thinks modern Japanese video games suck. Okay. There has been a very, very long Western vs. Japanese video game discourse. I have often heard "Western video games suck," or "Japanese video games suck." It really isn't all that different than PS vs Xbox or PC vs console. I don't particularly care because it isn't all that interesting. But it doesn't seem to be about vanity or being full of oneself either. It is just that unfortunate sort of tribalism that happens in fandoms.
2) Big boobs in fighting games. You say the video game design in fighting games *these days* is all just big boobs. It isn't just these days. This has been going on for a very long time. The sexist objectification of women in video games is not new. I don't like it and do not give my money to games that do it.
3) Port game. There have been port games before. I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with pornography in general, but I would hope that whatever porn games you get are done in ways that are empowering and without shame rather than sexist or oppressive.

[truefaiterman]

Beign "full of yourself" doesn't seem that important to stand out. I think the only one who really was like that was Fish, quoting his epic "I'm the new face of gaming" and such. The guy behind Braid had a little of this at the beginning, with some "I make art" B.S. but he stopped a long time ago, at least for now. That makes two people, so... well duh. About the "Japanese games suck"... well, he has his opinions, and I actually agree with some of them, but the way he says everything just pops out the word "JERK" everywhere...

Fighting games with boobies? Welcome to vidiagaems!!! Those MK chicks have been always like that, and using real actresses in the first games, so... well, that. I honestly don't feel bad for that example, since Mortal Kombat is... pretty much stupid gore and sexplotation, it's the kind of thing one expect in such a game series.

Virtual Reality porn game. Think about it. Now picture the player. I actually laughed hard. But hey, is there a better way to "stimulate yourself"? Unfortunately, I think both trooper6 and I know that it's not going to be an "empowering and without shame" sex game, but the complete oposite.

[trooper6]

Virtual Reality porn game. Think about it. Now picture the player. I actually laughed hard. But hey, is there a better way to "stimulate yourself"? Unfortunately, I think both trooper6 and I know that it's not going to be an "empowering and without shame" sex game, but the complete oposite.

Yeah, I know. You are right about that. And it makes me sad. We could do pornography in a healthier way...we just don't very often.

[Ekamu]

Since when was pornography "empowering and without shame" anyway?... The vast majority is made for pure pleasure/enjoyment of the target watcher but it can still be good quality and have more taste.

Fighting games have always been like this, but I think the boobs keep getting bigger ( characters keep getting more and more "sexualized") but if your target is predominantly a male audience then I guess it's just business (marketing strategy).

Realistically, fighter girls are a lot more "butch" (muscular with small to no boobs), but who would play that?...(<_<) I would but for alternative reasons.

I still think its important to have an ego when dealing with publicity and such, it stimulates emotional reaction and in the long run you're remembered a lot more. Compared to being politically correct in every interview you have. If Phil did the usual right answer in such an interview and answered
"Oh yea Japan has had some great games but I don't think we should separate Japan from the West e.t.c all games are amazing" blah blah blah...

we would like him a lot more and then ultimately forget him forever.

Take note: an ego is essential in this world of ours. You need to think you're better than everyone but the difference is that you have to then prove that in fact you are better than everyone, even Japan and then you will be...in your head at least.

I salute Phil for setting a great example. We will certainly never forget his egotism and then remember FEZ with similar fury.

[TrickWithAKnife]

I disagree. There is a big difference between being egotistical and taking pride in what you do.

As for the comment about real women who are fighters being masculine, I'd love to know what your source is. I didn't see that in any of the many martial art clubs I was a member of.

Generalisations generally lead to offending and/or stereotyping.